Custom steel - some options

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raggedtrousers
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by raggedtrousers

DHG01 wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:34 pm
Legor is an excellent choice; he is based in Spain, but is actually Italian. Another good option in Spain is RS Cycles. I think the OP would enjoy working with him, he is very engaged. A friend has one an the framebuilder drove from Rioja to Madrid to deliver in person. Arregui Velázquez is also well known. These are typically overqualified individuals (AV is an architect) who have a passion for bikes. They spend more time on a frame than what is profitable for them.

Perhaps best of all is Amaro - gorgeous bikes. But I don't think it would work for the OP. Before talking to you, Amaro makes you fill in a form and make a donation to a charity of your choice; he will then decide if you are a prick or worthy of his work. My understanding is that he will not sale a frameset, but only complete bikes - concerned over seeing his work of art with poor looking components. Having said that, the complete builds are reasonably priced. I think one day I will bend to his requirements...if he lets me.
I'll have a look - thank you.

by Weenie


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c60rider
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by c60rider

raggedtrousers wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:34 pm
shimmeD wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:09 pm
:thumbup: +1 Bigger Gear, I find there's something like a lot to like about this Legor https://cyclingtips.com/2018/11/bikes-o ... in-girona/
OTOH I'm staying loyal to English.
That is very nice.
Looking at the image down onto the bottom bracket area between the seat tube and down tube it doesn't look particularly well finished at all there. Though that's going off the image only it may be fine in person but based on how clear the other images appear it's pretty rough!

nestornnk
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by nestornnk

One of the best artisans in Italy is ciclibarco.it, they are highly recommended and they make great frames.

hansdie
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by hansdie

Around 2-3 years ago I was looking for a new steel framed bike and like you I wanted something classic but modern. There are a lot of really nice frame builders out their but I noticed many of them are just really good at marketing and charge more than I think a steel frame should cost. I narrowed it down to a few bikes that I thought looked good, had a fair price, decent lead time and good history in the name. Should also add that I wanted a bike for riding in all conditions so no elaborate paint jobs (ie art bikes).

Stelbel - SB/03
Battaglin - Power+
Casati - Espresso RS

The Stelbel has a great website and marketing and I really liked the design of the bike and logo but couldn't get over the cables that run under the bottom bracket, the akward size of the chain stay and the fact that the company went out of business in the '90's and restarted 2014 just to use name and history (my opinion).

The Battaglin was another great bike and the only things I didn't like were the fact that half the bike was fillet brazed and the other half welded, the number of logos they had on the bike and the full name "Officina Battaglin", in my opinion, too long. If the name was just Battaglin and some logos taken off probably whould have bought it.

Lastly the Casati, the marketing of the bike is pretty bad, website is not polished and modern but the frame had everything I really wanted in a frame. Hidden cables, fully fillet brazed, nice aesthetics, subdued look, classic but modern, good history, skill in frame building, price, delivery time and good communication. The only think I felt it was missing was engraving on the head tube and/or bottom bracket which I think looks nice.

So purchased the Casati have no regrets.

But having said all that I didn't see Barco...and if I was to buy another bike it would have to be between Casati and Barco.

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naylor343
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by naylor343

+1 for Rourke. Brian Rourke frames were as classic as any Italian frame back in the 80's days of all steel, so regret selling mine.

Another option for modern steel is the Cinelli Nemo tig. Available in custom geometry and paint, a thing of beauty. Off the peg price is very reasonable, custom I do not know $€£ ?

raggedtrousers
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by raggedtrousers

Ok, well a quick update:

Field not taking orders at the moment. Feather incommunicado (but probably always too £££ anyway). Almost certainly staying UK as just about everyone includes a fit with the order, so it seems silly not to take advantage of that, and there are no customs/VAT/import issues, and no language barrier.

We're down to 3 options:

1. Rourke - they are struggling to get 953, and what they have is already allocated. They are 'hopeful' of having more by end of March, but I'd be looking at 12-16 weeks from when the tubing arrives. They have offered a VERY competitive price, and a 12-16 week turnaround, on an 853/853 pro frameset, however. Had a very productive and quite detailed phone chat about tubing, geometry and pricing, and I was quietly impressed with the no-nonsense but very knowledgeable approach.
2. The apprentice to the big name - phone chat tomorrow
3. Wait.

Odds on all roughly even ATM, with a Rourke 853/853 pro maybe just nudging ahead.

The Ritchey Road Logic, as suggested by someone in this thread might be an option. The numbers on the size 53 actually look really good for me, and at c. £1100 frameset, it would bring a Record/Bora build definitely into budget. But it doesn't massively excite me, if I'm honest, and they are thin on the ground currently.

c60rider
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by c60rider

raggedtrousers wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:07 pm
Ok, well a quick update:

Field not taking orders at the moment. Feather incommunicado (but probably always too £££ anyway). Almost certainly staying UK as just about everyone includes a fit with the order, so it seems silly not to take advantage of that, and there are no customs/VAT/import issues, and no language barrier.

We're down to 3 options:

1. Rourke - they are struggling to get 953, and what they have is already allocated. They are 'hopeful' of having more by end of March, but I'd be looking at 12-16 weeks from when the tubing arrives. They have offered a VERY competitive price, and a 12-16 week turnaround, on an 853/853 pro frameset, however. Had a very productive and quite detailed phone chat about tubing, geometry and pricing, and I was quietly impressed with the no-nonsense but very knowledgeable approach.
2. The apprentice to the big name - phone chat tomorrow
3. Wait.

Odds on all roughly even ATM, with a Rourke 853/853 pro maybe just nudging ahead.

The Ritchey Road Logic, as suggested by someone in this thread might be an option. The numbers on the size 53 actually look really good for me, and at c. £1100 frameset, it would bring a Record/Bora build definitely into budget. But it doesn't massively excite me, if I'm honest, and they are thin on the ground currently.
It sounds as though if you were going for a Rourke you would have wanted the 953 but are compromising with the 853 only because they can give you some kind of commitment to when you might get that. I can understand when you have in mind that you want a new bike you're keen to get on with it but right now with the current worldwide manufacturing climate really limits your choice. And that's the whole reason for going custom to give you choice of exactly what you want. Maybe option 3 of waiting is the best thing to do and plan for a new bike for next year :noidea:

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Ant
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by Ant

I waited for many months for 953, Reynolds never delivered and I ended up cancelling my order with Roberts at the time. That's when I went to Hampsten.

Looking back im glad it happened and would choose 853 if going for Reynolds now, although I have Columbus on the Hampsten.

All this has got me wanting an 853 frame from Rourke

raggedtrousers
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by raggedtrousers

c60rider wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:29 pm

It sounds as though if you were going for a Rourke you would have wanted the 953 but are compromising with the 853 only because they can give you some kind of commitment to when you might get that. I can understand when you have in mind that you want a new bike you're keen to get on with it but right now with the current worldwide manufacturing climate really limits your choice. And that's the whole reason for going custom to give you choice of exactly what you want. Maybe option 3 of waiting is the best thing to do and plan for a new bike for next year :noidea:
Well, sort of. I would like stainless ideally, yes. It's conceptually what I originally wanted, I like the aesthetics of polished stays, and there is a durability advantage. And you're right there is definitely a 'it's what I can get' factor, so you do have a point.

That said, this did come up in the chat with Rourke. Essentially, the actual advantage of stainless for me (just over 70kg, c.4w/kg) is going to be fairly marginal. An 853 pro frame, raw, is actually going to weigh in a smidge less than a 953 frame; cataphoresis will pretty much equalise that difference, then what will make the 853 a little bit heavier is going to be the paint (assuming that you leave half the 953 unpainted). In any case, the difference is going to be 50-100g, 150 at most, and if you're worried about 100g, why buy a steel frame anyway? The 853 will be about 25% less stiff at a comparable frame weight. Will I notice that in a max effort sprint? Maybe. Between 180-600 watts (where I do 99% of my riding)? Unlikely.

So Wayne suggested I consider the idea that, with stainless, you are paying a lot extra for a relatively small performance difference, maybe even an unnoticeable one, and that he generally tells anyone who doesn't race/isn't very big and powerful the same thing. Also consider whether or not you actually want the stiffer feel. But, on the other hand, if you want 'the best', together with the aesthetics, a bit more dent resistance, and you're happy to pay (and in this case wait), then stainless is the way to go and it does have a certain cachet. He said that adding a stainless headtube and bb to an 853 frame is not something he'd especially worry about, assuming you're going to look after the bike properly, but again, if you want the peace of mind, then go for it.

Now, I might normally take this with a pinch of salt (would the maker be extolling the virtues of stainless more if he had it in stock?), but I have seen similar arguments made elsewhere, and one of the other builders I spoke to said much the same thing: 853 pro/columbus spirit or life will do what you want it do and at a price that you want/are able to pay. .

So that if anything this has actually muddied the waters further!

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by CustomMetal

Did you speak to Burls in the end?
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c60rider
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by c60rider

My now 30 year old Dave Lloyd frame in 653, though a cracked stay was repaired with a Reynolds equivalent 4 years ago, is still really good otherwise and actually my favourite bike of all that I own. So Rourke is probably right about such little extra benefits from 953 over 853. Go for it!
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Ant
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by Ant

My 1996 531 frame doesn't have any dings in it despite being chained up to a bust London bike rack for years. Not sure if 853 is more fragile.

DHG01
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by DHG01

In the case of Columbus, Spirit is actually thinner that XCR for some tubes (I think it was the top tube). As noted previously, weight is going to be very similar.

But the discussion around performance doesn't make much sense, they are very similar in that aspect.

Having said that, stainless has a very special feel; similar in some ways to titanium with the typical springy feel of steel. If that is what you had in mind, I think you will like it.

The Ritchey Logic is a very enjoyable bike. It s a Ritchey - functional and nothing wrong to it. And pretty light too. The pic is with derailleur hanger and the 5 screws (2 bottle holders and seatpost clamp).
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Yemble
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by Yemble

Ant wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:18 pm
Not sure if 853 is more fragile.
"853 Pro" is certainly more fragile, it has very thin walls - down to 0.4mm iirc. My builder recommended against it for my frame and we went with regular 853, though tbf I use this bike for some gravel and commuting so that factored into the rec.

by Weenie


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raggedtrousers
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by raggedtrousers

Yemble wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:04 pm
"853 Pro" is certainly more fragile, it has very thin walls - down to 0.4mm iirc. My builder recommended against it for my frame and we went with regular 853, though tbf I use this bike for some gravel and commuting so that factored into the rec.
This is what the guy at Rourke touched on briefly. For a good/summer road bike, no problem in his view, but not something he'd recommend for a workhorse or day in day out use.

The Ritchey Road Logic is increasingly coming into the equation, actually, especially when I look at the geometry, but they are thin on the ground atm.

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