Be Aware: Quarq dub cranks downgraded but the same price

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Visqu
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by Visqu

gSporco wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:14 pm
stevec1975 wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:50 am
The 9200 Rings do not fit the existing Quard DFour 91/DFour spider, the rings have a different bolt circle spacing.

I am running the 9100 rings on my 9200 setup, there is no noticeable difference between the rings. Not tried Carbon-TI to see how it measures up
Thats what I figured :(
P2M claims the following, along with a photo of the powermeter with 12s Shimano rings installed:
Our power meters with the 110 4-S or 4-SL bolt circle for Shimano chainrings are compatible with both the current 11-speed chainrings and Shimano’s new 12-speed gears.
https://www.power2max.com/en/2021/10/li ... hainrings/

mwnn
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:57 pm

by mwnn

Question - will Red D1 GXP 24mm 8-Bolt crankarms (new version) work with Quarq DZero Power Meter AXS DUB spider (new version) on BB90 Trek madone ?

It seems that this is the only option for BB90 if Quarq/Sram are considered ... ? (11s setup)

Maybe I am repeating the topic, but it seems to me that the previous posts were mostly about the compatibility of the old quarq dzero spider (not dub) with the new red D1 dub crankarms (lowered price).

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ryanw
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by ryanw

Yes.
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mwnn
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by mwnn

ryanw wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:32 pm
Yes.
Without previously communicated "1mm/4mm" issue....?

JaeOne3345
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:27 am

by JaeOne3345

Pinguin wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:28 pm
I have Dub Crank and Axs D zero Spider
Have some problems with the chainline
Is the Spider on the photo ok at this position?
The Spider is 2mm out of line
Ypuh wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:06 pm
That's person 3 or 4 in this thread (including me).

Safe to say the DUB cranks and 110mm AXS spider isn't a huge success when it comes to chainline. It works, but some frames (rim brakes with a smaller hub width possibly) have more issues than others.
Count me in as person 5. My situation is a bit different though.

I purchased some Red branded D1 cranks in December along with a Sigeyi AXO AXS-4-110 power meter. Magnetic charging as opposed to coin, and a 55 gram weight difference compared to the DFour attracted me to this point (duh, where are posting :lol: ). This is a rim brake bike with a 68mm BSA BB.

I paired these with brand new DA 9100 rings and a BB Infinite BSA Dub bottom bracket. BBI's 4.5mm outboard spacer and outer cup creates the same distance/width as the SRAM BSA BB with the 3mm spacer installed. They did their math right. I checked at a local shop who let me compare both with a caliper.

Sigeyi's own chart and a photo or two from customers on their website lead be me to think this would work. Attached a photo of that.

I assumed(like a fool) that the 4-110 version was made as a Dfour equivalent, with chainline maintained for 9100/8000/7000 set ups running the AXS cranks.

I could tell soemthing was off right away because my inner 34 ring was about 3mm or so more outward from the normal distance my Shimano crank and 34T is in relation to my chain catcher. I had to adjust the High Limit quite a bit, and the bike shifts and works fine, but the chainline is not to my liking at all. I know that the attached photo showing the interface between crank and PM spider doesn't seem like a big issue. I think it has to do with offset off the chain ring mounting points as well.

I really only read this thread attentively enough to learn that I was late on getting the Red D1 cranks at the lower price, and didn't realize there were chainline issues for some folks. I am pretty positive Sigeyi used the measurements from the DZero set up and they simply just have different bolt patterns, but the chainline is not changed at all from say 5-110 to 4-110 like the Dfour Dub appears to incorporate.

Gonna see what they say about it. Costly experimentation since now I just have to buy the Dfour anyway. I am going to try and move the DS dub spacer to the NDS, and see if I can fine tune with the chain line with spacers. The thought of it all being "wrong" bothers me though.

Cliffsnotes: Sigeyi AXO AXS-4-110 with Red D1 cranks seems to create the same issue as the Dzero on some rim bikes. :(
Attachments
Sigeyi-D1 Interface.JPG
Sigeyi Chart.png

Hexsense
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by Hexsense

hmm, weird.
It should be more outboard but shouldn't be that much out.

Shimano r9100 and older has ~43 chainline. But Sram, gxp, bb30 and Dub has 45mm chainline. So, it should be just that, a couple mm more outboard.
It work especially well with disc brake rear spacing which is wider than rim brake hub too.
This is nowhere excessively outboard, as there's also 47.5mm chainline as Sram Force Wide (and Shimano GRX) that work on the same hub spacing.

I'm glad road chainline is still sensibly narrow unlike MTB. On MTB it's now 52mm or 55mm chainline on 148mm rear spacing. That's equivalent chain angle to 49mm or 52mm chainline on road disc hub. One option is less than ideal and another is just plain bad.

JaeOne3345
Posts: 145
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by JaeOne3345

Hexsense, thanks for the insight. I put the shimano chainset back on last night so I could ride this morning. I am going to mess around right now and do some more measuring.

I have a chain catcher so I will take better measurements from the inner ring to the catcher with both set ups.

JaeOne3345
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:27 am

by JaeOne3345

Hexsense, thanks again.

With the shimano chainset, I could squeeze a 3mm allen key between the inner ring and my chain catcher.

With the SRAM Dub/Sigeyi/9100 rings I could squeeze a 5mm allen key. I am going to play with reducing the drive side spacing by 2mm.

stevec1975
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by stevec1975

So, semi- Quick question.

I have a Quarq Dfour 91 Powermeter (with the 8 bolt spider) attached to Quarq branded crankarms (Logo's sanded off) using a GXP Spindle. This lot weighs 724.8g with DA 9100 50/34 chainrings

If I was able to source Quarq/Red D1 DUB Arms, could I use my old spider (that has the same interface) and just upgrade to a DUB BB (I have a BBRight system on my Cervelo) and it would all work? What would the potential weight savings be? I have seen examples in the low 600's so a fair amount of weight to save for just a crank arm swap (if I can find any in a 170/172.5 Length)

OnTheRivet
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by OnTheRivet

tommyboyo wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:22 pm
LBoogie28 wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:32 pm
Might get some eye rolls, but building up a new bike with DA groupset (wanting to avoid L/R imbalance and a magnet on my bike)...so going down this crank arm rabbit hole again. Thoughts on how ridiculous new "Red" crank arms paired with a dzero quarq and praxis chainrings will look on the bike?
I have similar (although I use 53/39 DA 9100 rings, so dfour rather than zero) with the red arms.

Don't even notice it anymore.

No different from ones that say quarq really and if I saw it on someone else's bike, I would think 'that person knows the score!!' :wink:
My bike is a Canyon with Ultegra Di2 derailluers, GRX shifters and SRAM Red cranks/chainrings with a dzero power meter, looks damn cool if I do say so myself.

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ryanw
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by ryanw

stevec1975 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:47 pm
So, semi- Quick question.

I have a Quarq Dfour 91 Powermeter (with the 8 bolt spider) attached to Quarq branded crankarms (Logo's sanded off) using a GXP Spindle. This lot weighs 724.8g with DA 9100 50/34 chainrings

If I was able to source Quarq/Red D1 DUB Arms, could I use my old spider (that has the same interface) and just upgrade to a DUB BB (I have a BBRight system on my Cervelo) and it would all work? What would the potential weight savings be? I have seen examples in the low 600's so a fair amount of weight to save for just a crank arm swap (if I can find any in a 170/172.5 Length)
140g saving from crank arms and spindle. Not sure GXP vs DUB BB weight.
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JaeOne3345
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:27 am

by JaeOne3345

JaeOne3345 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:10 am
Hexsense, thanks again.

With the shimano chainset, I could squeeze a 3mm allen key between the inner ring and my chain catcher.

With the SRAM Dub/Sigeyi/9100 rings I could squeeze a 5mm allen key. I am going to play with reducing the drive side spacing by 2mm.
I ended up picking up a Dfour today since I have 9100 rings. Chainline restored back to 43.5 with the Dfour spider. All is good again.

Sigeyi got back to me and confirmed all of their 8 bolt AXS pattern units are 45mm chainline. Gonna put the Sigeyi up for sale if anyone is interested in one that is 4-110.

BigBoyND
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Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

ryanw wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:35 am

140g saving from crank arms and spindle. Not sure GXP vs DUB BB weight.
55g per R2 pictures on scale

ichobi
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

So technically speaking, if one were to shave as much weight from the 9270 chainset (or change it entirely) and add a powermeter, it'd look like this?

1. SRAM Red or Quarq arms / DUB
2. Quarq D4 spider pm / DUB
3. Your DUB bb of choice
4. Your choice of chainrings - so far we have candidates from Carbon-Ti, Rotor, Praxis etc.

With, say a 52-36 chainring combos, what kind of weight are we looking with this set up? 600ish? I suppose they can't be as low as Red AXS with Quarq Red chainring pm right?

I am thinking of moving away from my current SRAM Red AXS Setup to a new Dura-Ace. If the above combination proves quite WW, I then could basically keep my red arms and dub bb, and sell of the RED powermeter rings, then just buy the new quarq spider pm and chainring of choice.

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stevec1975
Posts: 566
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:37 pm
Location: London

by stevec1975

ryanw wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:35 am
stevec1975 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:47 pm
So, semi- Quick question.

I have a Quarq Dfour 91 Powermeter (with the 8 bolt spider) attached to Quarq branded crankarms (Logo's sanded off) using a GXP Spindle. This lot weighs 724.8g with DA 9100 50/34 chainrings

If I was able to source Quarq/Red D1 DUB Arms, could I use my old spider (that has the same interface) and just upgrade to a DUB BB (I have a BBRight system on my Cervelo) and it would all work? What would the potential weight savings be? I have seen examples in the low 600's so a fair amount of weight to save for just a crank arm swap (if I can find any in a 170/172.5 Length)
140g saving from crank arms and spindle. Not sure GXP vs DUB BB weight.
Thanks Ryan,

So my understanding on weights (taken from R2 bike weight on scales):
Arms: 339 - Quarq DUB D1
Spider: 173.7 - Quarq Dfour Dub/91 with bolts
Rings: 127.7 - DA 9100 50/34
Bolts: 5
Total 645.6

Do any of these seem out of line?

My crank is currently 724.8, so a saving of 79.2g overall, might be worth if if I could find the D1's for the original price in a 170/172.5mm length, but can only find 177.5's cheap.

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