SRAM AXS Front Derailleur Setup issues.....

[gSporco]

I don't and won't use the auto/compensating mode. Just manual front shifts. But in my set up attempts tips:

-make sure cranks are installed correct/torqued
-make sure chain is correct length and power lock is locked
-make sure cassette and thru axles are installed correctly and tight
-make sure rear derailleur limits are set and good
-then move on to front derailleur: height, alignment, high limit, low limit, then re check both again.
-I'm using the smallest flat wedge and it fits
-this seems to shift better than the systemsix go
-this is on my Aspero as well
-if all else fails bring it to a shop

Im good with that entire list however these are the items that have variations or at least un answered questions:

1. Chain length: what's correct? Sram says size it over the big-big then have 1 outer and one inner over lap..
I tried srams way and it seems like the chain dances in between the CRs with no bite to get up to the big CR.
To make it work this way I had to gap the outboard FD by 2 mm to force the chain over. Then once you pedal fast it theows the chain on to the pedals.
In 2 outer and 2 inner for more slack and this seemed to help with a more normal 1mm outboard gap, but still suffered chain drop to the outside

2. The height of the FD: some say short tooth of the big ring right at the line.. some say above the line some say slightly below the line... that's probably 2.5mm of variance between users. So who knows what's optimum??

3. Chain line: this i feel shouldn't matter much but some people say checknit. Well i had a probl with my preload nit which made the crank move 1-2mm side by side. 6 post ago someone mentioned that and i fixed it and the crank is perfect. Torqued, spins freely and now side tonside action. As for the spacing? Well DUB BB do not come with spacer nor re they recommend. Mine has an appropriately sized drive side and non drive side bushing which has a fixed spacing for each side.

The FD should not be this difficult to setup. I wonder if its possible the FD during its initial push, pushes to much before it comes back. Maybe it's faulty? Who knows.

Lastly, in the stand if you are standing facing the front of the bike and perform a front shift, watching the way the chain climbs on to the big ring is weird. It comes on at an angle where at the top of the ring it's coming in from the right but as the crank turns about half way, the chain at the bottom of the stroke is already coming off towards the pedals. Hard to explain but the chain is engaging on an angle like a back slash "/". When im more determined ill take a video and post it...

Hey gSporco,

I went through the process of creating a new account to be able to post here, as this thread has been very helpful in helping me figure out the FD issues with my Sram Force FD with 46T/33 crankset.

Coming from the Ultegra Di2, I was in the process of converting the 1X drivetrain on my new bike to 2X with my new AXS system a few nights ago and my issue was exactly as you described: chain dancing on the big ring when shifting and often spilling over to the pedal side. No amount of adjustments and tweaks to the FD helped. The culprit I found was my 33 inner chainring was not installed correctly. There is a little pointy index tab that must be aligned with the crank arm during the install. I discovered this solution on a Facebook group that was the main culprit for all my FD problems and it was spot on. Now the shifting from the small to big chainring was crisp and immediately seated the chain into the big ring without any dancing. I couldn't believe that one little detail I overlooked was the cause of all my FD shifting woes.

I know this thread was created last year and you have probably moved on. Hopefully, this will be of some help to lurkers like me looking for a solution to the Sram Force FD issues on the internet.

Tim

Yep I saw that tab on the inner chainring.. On my second or third attempt at AXS 2x I made sure that was aligned properly.. I had the 2x working for about 4 rides, until it dropped to the inside again jamming my chain against the frame..

For me I think its either a BB alignment of the force AXS rings ramps stink... The other member here who has had great success has used shimano and campy cranks with no issues.. Maybe the Red AXS rings have better ramps.. but I dont know.. I am sticking with 1x on my Aspero ..

I did pickup a Cervelo S3 a few weeks ago and its equipped with Ultegra Mechanical 2x.. I cant believe how well the FD shifts.. no chain drops, even if I intentionally try to drop the chain with poor shifting.. I really dont know what the culprit is.. I am almost tempted to install a AXS FD on the Ultegra to see if I can isolate it to the chainrings..

If I keep the S3 Ill have to decide if I want to go 1 or 2x AXS.. I love the shimano smoothness, just not a fan of mechanical anymore since I am not accustom to it..

[justonwo]

I had chain drop issues on my 2020 Roubaix, 2020 Canyon Ultimate, and now my 2020 Pinarello. All with AXS Red. They were set up according to the manual to the letter. I'm convinced the design is inherently flawed. I've made some tiny tweaks that have gotten the chain drop rate on my Pinarello down to once every 200-300 miles.

I've had all three bikes looked at by two different mechanics, one of whom does work for a UCI World Tour team. The setup isn't particularly complicated if you follow the manual, but that clearly isn't enough.

I've already had to warranty one Red crankset for runout and two RDs for slop in the parallelograms that led to messy shifting.

My two Dura Ace Di2 setups have been dead easy. I've set them up according to the manual and have had zero drop issues.

[justonwo]

I don't and won't use the auto/compensating mode. Just manual front shifts. But in my set up attempts tips:

-make sure cranks are installed correct/torqued
-make sure chain is correct length and power lock is locked
-make sure cassette and thru axles are installed correctly and tight
-make sure rear derailleur limits are set and good
-then move on to front derailleur: height, alignment, high limit, low limit, then re check both again.
-I'm using the smallest flat wedge and it fits
-this seems to shift better than the systemsix go
-this is on my Aspero as well
-if all else fails bring it to a shop

Im good with that entire list however these are the items that have variations or at least un answered questions:

1. Chain length: what's correct? Sram says size it over the big-big then have 1 outer and one inner over lap..
I tried srams way and it seems like the chain dances in between the CRs with no bite to get up to the big CR.
To make it work this way I had to gap the outboard FD by 2 mm to force the chain over. Then once you pedal fast it theows the chain on to the pedals.
In 2 outer and 2 inner for more slack and this seemed to help with a more normal 1mm outboard gap, but still suffered chain drop to the outside

2. The height of the FD: some say short tooth of the big ring right at the line.. some say above the line some say slightly below the line... that's probably 2.5mm of variance between users. So who knows what's optimum??

3. Chain line: this i feel shouldn't matter much but some people say checknit. Well i had a probl with my preload nit which made the crank move 1-2mm side by side. 6 post ago someone mentioned that and i fixed it and the crank is perfect. Torqued, spins freely and now side tonside action. As for the spacing? Well DUB BB do not come with spacer nor re they recommend. Mine has an appropriately sized drive side and non drive side bushing which has a fixed spacing for each side.

The FD should not be this difficult to setup. I wonder if its possible the FD during its initial push, pushes to much before it comes back. Maybe it's faulty? Who knows.

Lastly, in the stand if you are standing facing the front of the bike and perform a front shift, watching the way the chain climbs on to the big ring is weird. It comes on at an angle where at the top of the ring it's coming in from the right but as the crank turns about half way, the chain at the bottom of the stroke is already coming off towards the pedals. Hard to explain but the chain is engaging on an angle like a back slash "/". When im more determined ill take a video and post it...

Hey gSporco,

I went through the process of creating a new account to be able to post here, as this thread has been very helpful in helping me figure out the FD issues with my Sram Force FD with 46T/33 crankset.

Coming from the Ultegra Di2, I was in the process of converting the 1X drivetrain on my new bike to 2X with my new AXS system a few nights ago and my issue was exactly as you described: chain dancing on the big ring when shifting and often spilling over to the pedal side. No amount of adjustments and tweaks to the FD helped. The culprit I found was my 33 inner chainring was not installed correctly. There is a little pointy index tab that must be aligned with the crank arm during the install. I discovered this solution on a Facebook group that was the main culprit for all my FD problems and it was spot on. Now the shifting from the small to big chainring was crisp and immediately seated the chain into the big ring without any dancing. I couldn't believe that one little detail I overlooked was the cause of all my FD shifting woes.

I know this thread was created last year and you have probably moved on. Hopefully, this will be of some help to lurkers like me looking for a solution to the Sram Force FD issues on the internet.

Tim

Yep I saw that tab on the inner chainring.. On my second or third attempt at AXS 2x I made sure that was aligned properly.. I had the 2x working for about 4 rides, until it dropped to the inside again jamming my chain against the frame..

For me I think its either a BB alignment of the force AXS rings ramps stink... The other member here who has had great success has used shimano and campy cranks with no issues.. Maybe the Red AXS rings have better ramps.. but I dont know.. I am sticking with 1x on my Aspero ..

I did pickup a Cervelo S3 a few weeks ago and its equipped with Ultegra Mechanical 2x.. I cant believe how well the FD shifts.. no chain drops, even if I intentionally try to drop the chain with poor shifting.. I really dont know what the culprit is.. I am almost tempted to install a AXS FD on the Ultegra to see if I can isolate it to the chainrings..

If I keep the S3 Ill have to decide if I want to go 1 or 2x AXS.. I love the shimano smoothness, just not a fan of mechanical anymore since I am not accustom to it..

Which tab are you guys talking about? Are you talking about the crank arm position with respect to the rotational position of the chainrings? On the power cranks, there is only one way to install the cranks with respect to the chainrings. Since the two chainrings are a single unit, I assume you don't mean the rotational position of the two chainrings with respect to each other.

[naavt]

There is a little pointy index tab that must be aligned with the crank arm during the install. I discovered this solution on a Facebook group that was the main culprit for all my FD problems and it was spot on. Now the shifting from the small to big chainring was crisp and immediately seated the chain into the big ring without any dancing. I couldn't believe that one little detail I overlooked was the cause of all my FD shifting woes.

I know this thread was created last year and you have probably moved on. Hopefully, this will be of some help to lurkers like me looking for a solution to the Sram Force FD issues on the internet.

Tim

I've already sold the groupset because of FD issues, but I have a friend with a Trek Emonda with the same problems. Can you please elaborate on this?

[justonwo]

Oh, I see it. This is exclusive to the Force level, where the inner chainring can be rotated with respect to the cranks. If you look on the inside of the small chainring, you can see a small pointed protrusion that aligns with the crank arm.



This wouldn't be applicable to Red. You can't remove or rotate the inner chainring.

[gSporco]

Im good with that entire list however these are the items that have variations or at least un answered questions:

1. Chain length: what's correct? Sram says size it over the big-big then have 1 outer and one inner over lap..
I tried srams way and it seems like the chain dances in between the CRs with no bite to get up to the big CR.
To make it work this way I had to gap the outboard FD by 2 mm to force the chain over. Then once you pedal fast it theows the chain on to the pedals.
In 2 outer and 2 inner for more slack and this seemed to help with a more normal 1mm outboard gap, but still suffered chain drop to the outside

2. The height of the FD: some say short tooth of the big ring right at the line.. some say above the line some say slightly below the line... that's probably 2.5mm of variance between users. So who knows what's optimum??

3. Chain line: this i feel shouldn't matter much but some people say checknit. Well i had a probl with my preload nit which made the crank move 1-2mm side by side. 6 post ago someone mentioned that and i fixed it and the crank is perfect. Torqued, spins freely and now side tonside action. As for the spacing? Well DUB BB do not come with spacer nor re they recommend. Mine has an appropriately sized drive side and non drive side bushing which has a fixed spacing for each side.

The FD should not be this difficult to setup. I wonder if its possible the FD during its initial push, pushes to much before it comes back. Maybe it's faulty? Who knows.

Lastly, in the stand if you are standing facing the front of the bike and perform a front shift, watching the way the chain climbs on to the big ring is weird. It comes on at an angle where at the top of the ring it's coming in from the right but as the crank turns about half way, the chain at the bottom of the stroke is already coming off towards the pedals. Hard to explain but the chain is engaging on an angle like a back slash "/". When im more determined ill take a video and post it...

Hey gSporco,

I went through the process of creating a new account to be able to post here, as this thread has been very helpful in helping me figure out the FD issues with my Sram Force FD with 46T/33 crankset.

Coming from the Ultegra Di2, I was in the process of converting the 1X drivetrain on my new bike to 2X with my new AXS system a few nights ago and my issue was exactly as you described: chain dancing on the big ring when shifting and often spilling over to the pedal side. No amount of adjustments and tweaks to the FD helped. The culprit I found was my 33 inner chainring was not installed correctly. There is a little pointy index tab that must be aligned with the crank arm during the install. I discovered this solution on a Facebook group that was the main culprit for all my FD problems and it was spot on. Now the shifting from the small to big chainring was crisp and immediately seated the chain into the big ring without any dancing. I couldn't believe that one little detail I overlooked was the cause of all my FD shifting woes.

I know this thread was created last year and you have probably moved on. Hopefully, this will be of some help to lurkers like me looking for a solution to the Sram Force FD issues on the internet.

Tim

Yep I saw that tab on the inner chainring.. On my second or third attempt at AXS 2x I made sure that was aligned properly.. I had the 2x working for about 4 rides, until it dropped to the inside again jamming my chain against the frame..

For me I think its either a BB alignment of the force AXS rings ramps stink... The other member here who has had great success has used shimano and campy cranks with no issues.. Maybe the Red AXS rings have better ramps.. but I dont know.. I am sticking with 1x on my Aspero ..

I did pickup a Cervelo S3 a few weeks ago and its equipped with Ultegra Mechanical 2x.. I cant believe how well the FD shifts.. no chain drops, even if I intentionally try to drop the chain with poor shifting.. I really dont know what the culprit is.. I am almost tempted to install a AXS FD on the Ultegra to see if I can isolate it to the chainrings..

If I keep the S3 Ill have to decide if I want to go 1 or 2x AXS.. I love the shimano smoothness, just not a fan of mechanical anymore since I am not accustom to it..

Which tab are you guys talking about? Are you talking about the crank arm position with respect to the rotational position of the chainrings? On the power cranks, there is only one way to install the cranks with respect to the chainrings. Since the two chainrings are a single unit, I assume you don't mean the rotational position of the two chainrings with respect to each other.

Im talking about the Force AXS rings as they are independent from small and big. There is a little tab/ triangle that aligns with the crank arm. I was using Force rings as I opted for quarq dub PM spider as I couldn't commit to a 2x PM and Im glad I didn't

[TheMalahat]

I had a warranty done at SRAM's suggestion on my front deraileur; my problem was the system would get adjusted. I'd always have two good rides. One ride with a drop or two, and by the fourth ride I was guaranteed to lose every second shift big to small.

New deraileur is installed. Two great rides. Third ride lost the chain twice. Tried for fourth ride today and unridable. So, that didn't work. (although partial props to SRAM and the LBS. That whole process took four days).

I'm relying only on my LBS and their good patience at this point, but I am exhausted by this ridiculous situation.

From what I gather Red will likely have the same issues? And I probably can't even get red anyways.

The bike is back at the LBS, as SRAM also theorized that there's an issue with the mounting to the frame. If this doesn't work I guess I find the cash for a new group set, and join the long waiting list.

Never again going the SRAM route, a beautiful bike essentially sidelined after every third ride.

[naavt]

I had a warranty done at SRAM's suggestion on my front deraileur; my problem was the system would get adjusted. I'd always have two good rides. One ride with a drop or two, and by the fourth ride I was guaranteed to lose every second shift big to small.

New deraileur is installed. Two great rides. Third ride lost the chain twice. Tried for fourth ride today and unridable. So, that didn't work. (although partial props to SRAM and the LBS. That whole process took four days).

I'm relying only on my LBS and their good patience at this point, but I am exhausted by this ridiculous situation.

From what I gather Red will likely have the same issues? And I probably can't even get red anyways.

The bike is back at the LBS, as SRAM also theorized that there's an issue with the mounting to the frame. If this doesn't work I guess I find the cash for a new group set, and join the long waiting list.

Never again going the SRAM route, a beautiful bike essentially sidelined after every third ride.

My exact experience! Force AXS was my first SRAM group and decidedly the last one also!!!

[DaveS]

I still think that inept mechanics are most likely to blame, but it could also be SRAM's shifting ramps that contribute to the chain drops too. During the course of 8 not-sram crank installations, I've never had a chain drop or a shifting problem of any sort. My first grx crank install used the stock +2.5mm shimano grx chainline and it worked fine, but it used nearly every bit of the FD travel. I installed 2.5mm spacing washers that should have produced a 43.5mm chainline and only had to readjust the limit screws. I switched from 46/30, 170mm arms to 48/31 with 175mm arms a few months ago with zero problems.

I should have a new silver 10-33 force cassette next week. I'll report on whether it's as totally silent as my two 10-36 cassettes soon.

[justonwo]

I had a warranty done at SRAM's suggestion on my front deraileur; my problem was the system would get adjusted. I'd always have two good rides. One ride with a drop or two, and by the fourth ride I was guaranteed to lose every second shift big to small.

New deraileur is installed. Two great rides. Third ride lost the chain twice. Tried for fourth ride today and unridable. So, that didn't work. (although partial props to SRAM and the LBS. That whole process took four days).

I'm relying only on my LBS and their good patience at this point, but I am exhausted by this ridiculous situation.

From what I gather Red will likely have the same issues? And I probably can't even get red anyways.

The bike is back at the LBS, as SRAM also theorized that there's an issue with the mounting to the frame. If this doesn't work I guess I find the cash for a new group set, and join the long waiting list.

Never again going the SRAM route, a beautiful bike essentially sidelined after every third ride.

Three warranties for me so far on SRAM Red. Two RDs and one crankset. Red does not solve the problems with the FD. The FD has been tweaked 6 ways until Sunday and we've gotten the chain drops down to a manageable level.

[TheMalahat]

Three warranties for me so far on SRAM Red. Two RDs and one crankset. Red does not solve the problems with the FD. The FD has been tweaked 6 ways until Sunday and we've gotten the chain drops down to a manageable level.

Well that's depressing lol.

My current goal; get it rideable, like you describe. Start saving my pennies and put the next version of DA on it.

I was offered the SRAM and ultegra Di2 version of this bike, I really regret my decision! Because it is otherwise just absolutely fantastic.

[Andrew69]

I feel for you guys because Ive done about 5K km on my Red AXS equipped bike and only had 1 chain drop (to the inside of the small ring), but I put that to my error as I had the AXS set up to seqential shift and I shifted back into the small ring just as it had shifted into the big ring and the chain was only partially onto the big ring
Otherwise it has been flawless in every way

[justonwo]

Three warranties for me so far on SRAM Red. Two RDs and one crankset. Red does not solve the problems with the FD. The FD has been tweaked 6 ways until Sunday and we've gotten the chain drops down to a manageable level.

Well that's depressing lol.

My current goal; get it rideable, like you describe. Start saving my pennies and put the next version of DA on it.

I was offered the SRAM and ultegra Di2 version of this bike, I really regret my decision! Because it is otherwise just absolutely fantastic.

Yeah, this is one three different bikes. While I love the gear range and the completely wireless setup, I've quoted Bauke Mollema many times on the road. I've been riding SRAM AXS since 2019. Went back to DA on my Aethos. Crisp, flawless.

[ghostinthemachine]

I still think that inept mechanics are most likely to blame,

Sometimes, usually not. SRAM stuff (front mechs being the prime example) just doesn't seem as robust to variation as Shimano or Campag.

Shimano and campag you can generally say that they will work perfectly in all the positions/configuations/tolerances that are to spec, then *most* of them that are slightly out. So too high, too low, wrong angle between stay and seat tube, front mech mount too far forwards or back, slightly rotated etc.

SRAM will work well in the middle portion of the specified tolerance band, so if your bike has been constructed to sit nicely in that range, you'll have no issues.
As you approach the edges of the specified tolerance band, it seems to work less and less well, or needs more and more fiddling/fettling and general bodging. Until you get ***out of cheese*** error, then you need a new frame. Whereas with most shimano/campag, you'll just be scratching your head and wondering why it makes a funny noise on every 53rd shift.

[Nickldn]

I still think that inept mechanics are most likely to blame,

Sometimes, usually not. SRAM stuff (front mechs being the prime example) just doesn't seem as robust to variation as Shimano or Campag.

Shimano and campag you can generally say that they will work perfectly in all the positions/configuations/tolerances that are to spec, then *most* of them that are slightly out. So too high, too low, wrong angle between stay and seat tube, front mech mount too far forwards or back, slightly rotated etc.

SRAM will work well in the middle portion of the specified tolerance band, so if your bike has been constructed to sit nicely in that range, you'll have no issues.
As you approach the edges of the specified tolerance band, it seems to work less and less well, or needs more and more fiddling/fettling and general bodging. Until you get ***out of cheese*** error, then you need a new frame. Whereas with most shimano/campag, you'll just be scratching your head and wondering why it makes a funny noise on every 53rd shift.

I'm not saying you're wrong (in fact I'm pretty sure you are exactly right) about SRAM FD tolerance to some frame specs, but why does this seem to happen on brand new pre built bikes? Surely the manufacturer knows if the group is in spec before they start producing bikes with it on? Surely some testing would be done before bikes are released into the wild?

If not it reflects very very poorly on the bike manufacturers mentioned in this thread.