Factor Ostro

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wheelsONfire
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Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

>Cberg

^^
I believe you. But i think most people who buy the bikes (not just Pinarello) believe they buy the true blueprint. However, my guess is also that they test differet layups on current models. So it's possible there is a few versions. I don't believe each riders bike is custom for their specifics.
I mean, as an example. Vial EVO have two versions, the old geo and that of SCULP which was sold under another brand name. But each of these models have seen several revisions, but looks same same. It's both external layup aswell as internal that is different through revisions.
So, my guess is that for example, Pinarello do this to. A later F8 might be different to the first!? Or otherwise Pinarello actually test several versions and then release ex F10 and later F12 aso. A change in the visual appearance might trigger potential customers to buy a new bike over a version that actually looks the same!?
Building in metal would require change of tube diameter, lenght of tubes/ shapes and different angel. T*red is a good example looking at Aracnide, Crab (2 versions of steel and 2 Ti) + the REA model. All of these are either steel or ti. You also have Mania which is existing in different versions (alu frame).
Personally i am more keen on a T*red over a new carbon frame.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

tjvirden
Posts: 540
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:21 pm

by tjvirden

IvanZg wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:32 am
So does proprietary lay up make that frame/fork uci illegal as it's not part of publicly available batch? (Reason why they did not went public with that announcement)

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
I really doubt anyone at the UCI cares - there are plenty of recent examples of, in practical terms, pro only stuff.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

tjvirden wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:37 pm
mrlobber wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:58 am
Tiaxx wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:34 am
Been talking to John Ebsen during my purchase process of the Ostro frame, and i took the oportunity to ask him what's the deal with ISN not riding the Ostro.
Here's what he had to say on that matter:

"We made a special layup for the team bike.
Assuming it's true, this means the pros (even not individual, but a whole team) sometimes get a custom layup despite how many times we're being told that "they ride the same bikes which are available to the general public" ;)

Even more interesting is why they did it :twisted:
Well, it's entirely possible that is the reason - however it would help customer confidence if they put out something official, wouldn't it?!

My guess as to why is that it was stiffness related - I can see the fork being very, very stiff front-back and about the only way you can increase the comfort on bad surfaces (aka in-plane compliance, or splay) is let the steerer flex a little more. It's a legitimate way of doing it, but obviously requires very careful design, manufacture and of course testing! It seems there wasn't quite enough margin for impact, so back to the drawing board they go.
There is atleast one brand who design frames to handle impact. I wonder if it wasn't Factor!?
I think it was, but not sure.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

tjvirden
Posts: 540
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:21 pm

by tjvirden

Frame/fork impact testing is a part of ISO 4210 that all the manufacturers will be following - the problem is, real-world usage is not well represented by 4210. Factor seem to make reliable stuff in general, but once you really start pushing weight down with carbon then you can't rely on industry standard composites modelling software and definitely not on ISO 4210 - Specialized gave some hints as to how difficult the Aethos was to produce.

Pierre86
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon May 13, 2019 3:53 pm

by Pierre86

mrlobber wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:58 am
Tiaxx wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:34 am
Been talking to John Ebsen during my purchase process of the Ostro frame, and i took the oportunity to ask him what's the deal with ISN not riding the Ostro.
Here's what he had to say on that matter:

"We made a special layup for the team bike.
Assuming it's true, this means the pros (even not individual, but a whole team) sometimes get a custom layup despite how many times we're being told that "they ride the same bikes which are available to the general public" ;)

Even more interesting is why they did it :twisted:
UD front end maybe?
It might be weight related but I'd guess its more chasing front stiffness and pro's tolerate harshness a little better than the average consumer
S6 Evo
S5 Aero

ichobi
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by ichobi

In case you didn’t know, Factor Head of Sales is not just your average sales guy. John Ebsen is 3x Taiwan kom champion and also won Tour de Langkawi KOM jersey. Pretty cool!

romanmoser
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by romanmoser

Ok I may want to believe him.
But it's the same for the VAM fully integrated too ? Don't speak about that one
They ride the non integrated VAM. So maybe he's telling the truth AND
Also avoiding or keeping one information for himself, not impossible.

The Ostro was ridden as a prototype, for a short review by dave at cyclingtips, he found it not very stiff.
And he's your average weekend warrior cyclist, nothing crazy in terms of fitness .
Factor add in the article, that they were doing a stiffer layup for the production version

Scott2017
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 11:40 am

by Scott2017

Broken Ostro and plug issue addressed here:

Cycling Tips article:
https://cyclingtips.com/category/tech/

Factor blog post:
https://factorbikes.com/update-on-isn-team-ostro/

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MattMay
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by MattMay

ichobi wrote:In case you didn’t know, Factor Head of Sales is not just your average sales guy. John Ebsen is 3x Taiwan kom champion and also won Tour de Langkawi KOM jersey. Pretty cool!
That’s cool. He’s been super responsive and helpful to me...just placed an order for a Prisma O2 VAM with him. He’s even involved a product specialist to answer some technical bb and chainline questions.

eins4eins
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by eins4eins

Scott2017 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:49 am
Broken Ostro and plug issue addressed here:

Cycling Tips article:
https://cyclingtips.com/category/tech/

Factor blog post:
https://factorbikes.com/update-on-isn-team-ostro/
Good to know, but a strange way to handle this problem. If the wrong steering plug can cause such a catastrophic failure, i would expect a replacement and check of fork for all owners. Not them waiting for customers to complain about a loosesing headset.

And the first explanation of a special layup for the pros being the reason for the failure was a lie then i guess...

ichobi
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

I think the red flag is raised when many people reported loose headset. Mine also suffers from the same issue though to a minor degree. The new expander solves all that, but you would think they should have better QC for this quite critical piece. Still i think they are responsive enough and did a better job than Canyon, though it could have been faster.

barbaar
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:40 am
Location: NL

by barbaar

Tnx for this, and agree this is a strange way to handle this issue..

Contacted my LBS and asked him to order the updated plug. I prefer to fix issues like this before they occur.

Now continue waiting for the correct barstem...
Fuctor Ostro - Campy EPS SR Disc 12sp/P2M NG
Ridley R12 - Campy EPS Record 11sp/P2M NGEco
Thrust something - Campy Chorus/Record mechanical/P2M NGEco

No, that's not a typo

Maddie
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Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:44 am

by Maddie

Kudos to Factor for being so honest and making very detailed public statements of their findings. But waiting for customers to get in contact with them or their LBS is a risky move if they already know there is a potential issue.
And now we also got confirmation that pros are not riding special layups but much rather that they are still riding the old prototypes from last year.

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cyclespeed
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by cyclespeed

Why can't they just make the fork with a set nut inside like they have done for the pros?

So much simpler and lighter, and it's part of the fork so CANNOT move.

Also, I don't fully buy this explanation. Because the stem is the thing anchoring the whole system together. The stem should clamp the steerer in such as way that it cannot move. The compression bung should not be stressed. Only when the stem is incapable of holding the steerer is the bung then stressed and it's 'grip' is tested, and in these cases failing.

Cemicar
Posts: 472
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:40 am

by Cemicar

I know pretty much every other brand (aside of Specialized) goes this way, but still don't see why Ostro uses the D-shaped steering tube which ultimately caused this issue, especially since it's electronic shifting and disc only.

by Weenie


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