New bike: Red AXS or Dura ace di2?

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ohjinguh9
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:41 pm

by ohjinguh9

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:52 pm
pmprego wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:54 am
FlatlandClimber wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:40 am
People are hating on Red AXS, as if it were a mighty impairment on performance compared to Dura Ace. And most haven't even tried it. I have Red AXS on all my bikes and have ridden it for 20k km. Didn't really have many notable issues. Changing gears is absolutely fast enough for me, but that's just me.
My complains are limited choice of Gearing (nothing beyond 50/37, only 52T 1x when going stock SRAM) and expensive components.
The 10T cog being "slow" isn't really an issue, because I only use it for super fast descents. Don't really need a 50/10 too often (which at 90 cadence is just shy of 40mph)...
I don't like the 10t solution but I could easily live with it. What kills it for me is the FD. I have sram etap and it just drives me nuts. I see a dedicated thread just for people having the same issue with axs. At the axs price point this is just unacceptable.

Better for sram to buy the classified rear hub gearing mechanism and kill its fd.
I just can't say I have had notable issues with the FD 🤷🏻‍♂️
was a 1st gen etap early adopter, had no issues w chain drop, even when running carbon qrings
currently running red axs with no issues there either
doing it precisely, exactly as the video outlines has been pretty foolproof for me

i will say tho that i always run a drop catcher but im shocked at the number of people who don't. 20g to prevent drops and your BB looking like it got chewed by a beaver is a no brainer to me

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Spinnekop
Posts: 310
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: South Africa

by Spinnekop

ohjinguh9 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:22 pm
i will say tho that i always run a drop catcher but im shocked at the number of people who don't. 20g to prevent drops and your BB looking like it got chewed by a beaver is a no brainer to me
The shocker is the FD drops it outboard. No chain catcher works.
Trust me......if it was that easy to solve then we all would have done it.

Reading through various forums and thousands of comments on the chain drop negatives and positives..............(And I have tried various crank sets and chainrings)........It has something to do with your frame (chain line perhaps?) or something to do with the cassette and the length of the chain with that cassette together with the B-screw adjustment.
This is my theory.

But like I said........I am tired of working on my bike......so I have given up on finding the solution.

Still love the wireless groupset.
"In my experience, there is only one motivation, and that is DESIRE.
No reason or principle contain it or stand against it........"

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pmprego
Posts: 2513
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

Spinnekop wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:16 am
ohjinguh9 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:22 pm
i will say tho that i always run a drop catcher but im shocked at the number of people who don't. 20g to prevent drops and your BB looking like it got chewed by a beaver is a no brainer to me
The shocker is the FD drops it outboard. No chain catcher works.
Trust me......if it was that easy to solve then we all would have done it.
It is this simple. Even if we assume a hit rate of 50% it's not reasonable given the price of the gruppo. I even found out people who took forever to admit to have this chain drop problem because they basically didn't want to verbalize that their very expensive gruppo had this permanent flaw.

Like I said, the proprietary AXS thing bothers me, the 10t bothers me but nothing of that would make me not go AXS. But the FD thing will make me not go for SRAM. I will consider it again when they just drop the FD and adopt a 1x system of some sort.

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Spinnekop
Posts: 310
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: South Africa

by Spinnekop

pmprego wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:38 am
I will consider it again when they just drop the FD and adopt a 1x system of some sort.
I did the 1x thing for about 1400km. Bought a 48 Garbaruk 1x chainring specifically for flat top chain.
Works perfect.

But in the back of the mind I was constantly thinking..........I should not have to do this........I paid good money for a supposedly decent groupset....
"In my experience, there is only one motivation, and that is DESIRE.
No reason or principle contain it or stand against it........"

pmprego
Posts: 2513
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

Spinnekop wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:13 am
pmprego wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:38 am
I will consider it again when they just drop the FD and adopt a 1x system of some sort.
I did the 1x thing for about 1400km. Bought a 48 Garbaruk 1x chainring specifically for flat top chain.
Works perfect.

But in the back of the mind I was constantly thinking..........I should not have to do this........I paid good money for a supposedly decent groupset....
And you're correct. That is why I said after having that with etap it'd be stupid of me to go AXS in its current state. That is also why I said that SRAM would be the perfect candidate to buy the classified hub approach and ditch the FD. I guess the classified system still has some things to iron out but SRAM would have the budget and market share to make it happen and finally solve what for me is their biggest limitation.

DaveS
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Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Loveland Colorado

by DaveS

And then there's owners like me. Two groupsets, installed on 4 frames, with two different types of not-sram cranks and zero problems.

I don't get the cassette comments. Every brand has a different freehub spline. Shimano already has microspline. It's just late getting to road bikes. 11 speed will soon be dead. Most wheels, except shimano can be converted to any spline you want to use.

ohjinguh9
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:41 pm

by ohjinguh9

Spinnekop wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:16 am
ohjinguh9 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:22 pm
i will say tho that i always run a drop catcher but im shocked at the number of people who don't. 20g to prevent drops and your BB looking like it got chewed by a beaver is a no brainer to me
The shocker is the FD drops it outboard. No chain catcher works.
Trust me......if it was that easy to solve then we all would have done it.

Still love the wireless groupset.
wireless is the best, frankly having anything wired in 2020 is inexcusable

also, have you tried the FD adjustment tool that they've started to distribute?

JMeinholdt
Posts: 764
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:31 pm
Location: Topeka, KS

by JMeinholdt

DaveS wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:24 pm
And then there's owners like me. Two groupsets, installed on 4 frames, with two different types of not-sram cranks and zero problems.
Yup. Etap 11, not a single drop for me. AXS, no drop. Two different groups, two different generations, two different frames, zero problems. Granted, it's not electronic, but I've had my 3T for a month and half and the R7000 has dropped the chain inboard twice now. My 6870 dropped a chain inboard on my Wilier before I got AXS.

People don't sign up on forums to sing praises, they do to complain. This is not unusual for any product/industry.
Wilier Cento10AIR - SRAM Force AXS - Road/race
3T Exploro - SRAM Rival AXS XPLR - Gravel
Wilier Sestiere - Shimano Tiagra - Commuter

YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/@JMCyclingVideos

pmprego
Posts: 2513
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

JMeinholdt wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:50 pm
DaveS wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:24 pm
And then there's owners like me. Two groupsets, installed on 4 frames, with two different types of not-sram cranks and zero problems.
Yup. Etap 11, not a single drop for me. AXS, no drop. Two different groups, two different generations, two different frames, zero problems. Granted, it's not electronic, but I've had my 3T for a month and half and the R7000 has dropped the chain inboard twice now. My 6870 dropped a chain inboard on my Wilier before I got AXS.

People don't sign up on forums to sing praises, they do to complain. This is not unusual for any product/industry.
I love my favero assioma.

W.r.t. Groupsets any experience with the fsa one?
https://www.cyclingnews.com/reviews/fsa ... irst-look/

KyleH
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:51 pm

by KyleH

My AXS FD frustrations are enough to have me ditching it for the next gen di2 as quickly as possible. I can get it set up and shifting fine and miraculously it needs adjusting two weeks later to not be throwing chains. I'm hoping that a switch to an AXS crank will cure things but not holding my breath.

DaveS
Posts: 3921
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Loveland Colorado

by DaveS

Four not-sram, not axs cranks no problems.

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pdlpsher1
Posts: 4016
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

Chain drops from the big to small ring can be easily eliminated by adjusting the limit screw. For small to big ring chain drops, the FD support is absolutely critical. On Shimano FDs the support bolt needs to make solid contact with the braze-on tab or frame. On Sram they use the wedge. Here's an excerpt from the Sram's FD troubleshooting guide. Look at the back side of the front derailleur to see if the support wedge is installed and adjusted properly. Without it, outer limit adjustment needs to compensate to produce a fast shift, but then you run the risk of an over up-shift chain drop.

Frame flex, chainring flex, and crankset bearing preload can also affect FD shift performance, although I don't know if they play a role with regards to the AXS small-to-big chain drops.

gSporco
Posts: 949
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:58 am
Contact:

by gSporco

Spinnekop wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:13 am
pmprego wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:38 am
I will consider it again when they just drop the FD and adopt a 1x system of some sort.
I did the 1x thing for about 1400km. Bought a 48 Garbaruk 1x chainring specifically for flat top chain.
Works perfect.

But in the back of the mind I was constantly thinking..........I should not have to do this........I paid good money for a supposedly decent groupset....
@Spinnekop, this is what I think everyday with my buld.. As the thread author of the Sram AXS FD Chain Drops.. I am so pissed I cant run 2x AXS and had to resort to 1x to not lose my shirt in selling the groupo and the investment I made in the Quarq PM.. SO pissed off..
@gSporco - Instagram
Specialized Aethos
State All Road 6061
Retired Cervelo Aspero

Feehliks
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:07 pm

by Feehliks

I build my bike with Red AxS. I have had chain drops to the outside. Carefully readjusting the FBD and paying attention to the limit screws solved this. Scratched my crank nevertheless...

Generally a great group set!
  • 2019 Specialized Tarmac SW SL6 Red AXS Zipp 303
    2019 Cervelo P3 II Red AXS 1x Zipp 808
    2017 Cannondale Slate Force CX1 stock
    2012 Specialized Tarmac SL2
    2011 Cervelo P3 - under conversion to single speed/fixie
    2009 Cannondale CAAD9 Ultegra

by Weenie


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gSporco
Posts: 949
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:58 am
Contact:

by gSporco

Feehliks wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:05 pm
I build my bike with Red AxS. I have had chain drops to the outside. Carefully readjusting the FBD and paying attention to the limit screws solved this. Scratched my crank nevertheless...

Generally a great group set!
I found once I adjusted to get the chain to stop dropping on the outside i found that it would not shift to the inside.. and then vise versu.. I couldnt get a sweet spot to get it to shift up or down without dropping.. I concluded that the ramps on the Sram AXS CR do not do a good enough job of raising or lowering the chain..

It seems that those who are not using the Sram CRs have a better shifting experience..
@gSporco - Instagram
Specialized Aethos
State All Road 6061
Retired Cervelo Aspero

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