"Lightness" vs "Aeroness" UPDATED 10/2023

[Roadbiker10]

What is it with so many comments about riding in the drops being faster? The hoods are faster in the right position. Also a slammed stem for many will lead to them not being able to bend their arms on the hoods but ride with straight arms, which is not very aero. I've seen many people with this kind of position.

Here you don’t consider how you put power down to the pedals. In the drops you can accelerate stronger (attach, out of a curve, sprinting…).

Yeah, I didn't think of that. But that depends on what kind of racing we're talking about. Many will never even
race their bikes.

[TobinHatesYou]

Many will never even race their bikes.

Those people shouldn’t be considered during the design phase of a race bike or in tunnel testing / computer modeling.

[Hexsense]

Re: BB drop, since we are talking about small bikes...

Hold up are you guys advocating for MORE clearance from the ground or LESS with respect to the bottom of the BB shell?

Larger BB drop = lower to ground = more likely to strike/clip.
Smaller BB drop = higher from ground = less likely to strike/clip.

I think less than 80mm drop is fine for 165mm crank. About 75mm preferred. I don't want to be raised up higher (less bb drop than 70mm) just because of how it feel. "Stability", perhaps?


What still puzzle me is the lean angle required to corner the same line.
Somehow, my SuperSix and SystemSix (71.2 deg +55mm fork offset) require less lean angle for the same line than my old Allez Sprint size 49 (72.25 degree HTA +45mm fork offset). Like, the fork tilt more but the main body of the frame stay more up right, thus less pedal strike issue. I don't understand any mechanic of this. I thought the lean is required for mass to drop inside to counter outward movement. Thus bike geometry shouldn't effect how much lean angle is required for the same cornering line.

[Roadbiker10]

Many will never even race their bikes.

Those people shouldn’t be considered during the design phase of a race bike or in tunnel testing / computer modeling.

I don't understand what you mean. I'm talking about how people set up their bikes, and what is the optimal position aerodynamically. There are other scenarios other than racing in which people want to ride fast.

I'm only arguing regarding the position of the rider, not so much the aerodynamics of the bike.

[bet609]

would anyone know if the new Cervelo Soloist has been tested by TougMag?

[StanleyM]

Re: BB drop, since we are talking about small bikes...

Hold up are you guys advocating for MORE clearance from the ground or LESS with respect to the bottom of the BB shell?

Larger BB drop = lower to ground = more likely to strike/clip.
Smaller BB drop = higher from ground = less likely to strike/clip.

I think less than 80mm drop is fine for 165mm crank. About 75mm preferred. I don't want to be raised up higher (less bb drop than 70mm) just because of how it feel. "Stability", perhaps?


What still puzzle me is the lean angle required to corner the same line.
Somehow, my SuperSix and SystemSix (71.2 deg +55mm fork offset) require less lean angle for the same line than my old Allez Sprint size 49 (72.25 degree HTA +45mm fork offset). Like, the fork tilt more but the main body of the frame stay more up right, thus less pedal strike issue. I don't understand any mechanic of this. I thought the lean is required for mass to drop inside to counter outward movement. Thus bike geometry shouldn't effect how much lean angle is required for the same cornering line.

How were you measuring lean angle? I just datalog it. At the cursor that is about 20º. With the 160mm cranks and small pedals lots more is possible.

[Hexsense]

Good idea recording it properly with phone.
I was looking at the bike and feel where it move under me.
Wish I got the idea to record the data properly before I sold the Allez Sprint and SuperSix.
I now only have SystemSix as my only road bike.

[darnellrm]

would anyone know if the new Cervelo Soloist has been tested by TougMag?

What is a TougMag?

[Nickldn]

Re: BB drop, since we are talking about small bikes...

Hold up are you guys advocating for MORE clearance from the ground or LESS with respect to the bottom of the BB shell?

Larger BB drop = lower to ground = more likely to strike/clip.
Smaller BB drop = higher from ground = less likely to strike/clip.

I think less than 80mm drop is fine for 165mm crank. About 75mm preferred. I don't want to be raised up higher (less bb drop than 70mm) just because of how it feel. "Stability", perhaps?


What still puzzle me is the lean angle required to corner the same line.
Somehow, my SuperSix and SystemSix (71.2 deg +55mm fork offset) require less lean angle for the same line than my old Allez Sprint size 49 (72.25 degree HTA +45mm fork offset). Like, the fork tilt more but the main body of the frame stay more up right, thus less pedal strike issue. I don't understand any mechanic of this. I thought the lean is required for mass to drop inside to counter outward movement. Thus bike geometry shouldn't effect how much lean angle is required for the same cornering line.

How were you measuring lean angle? I just datalog it. At the cursor that is about 20º. With the 160mm cranks and small pedals lots more is possible.

lean.jpeg

Does your datalogger also record road camber?

[TheDoctor]

would anyone know if the new Cervelo Soloist has been tested by TougMag?

What is a TougMag?

Tour Magazine with a typo

[StanleyM]

Re: BB drop, since we are talking about small bikes...

Hold up are you guys advocating for MORE clearance from the ground or LESS with respect to the bottom of the BB shell?

Larger BB drop = lower to ground = more likely to strike/clip.
Smaller BB drop = higher from ground = less likely to strike/clip.

I think less than 80mm drop is fine for 165mm crank. About 75mm preferred. I don't want to be raised up higher (less bb drop than 70mm) just because of how it feel. "Stability", perhaps?


What still puzzle me is the lean angle required to corner the same line.
Somehow, my SuperSix and SystemSix (71.2 deg +55mm fork offset) require less lean angle for the same line than my old Allez Sprint size 49 (72.25 degree HTA +45mm fork offset). Like, the fork tilt more but the main body of the frame stay more up right, thus less pedal strike issue. I don't understand any mechanic of this. I thought the lean is required for mass to drop inside to counter outward movement. Thus bike geometry shouldn't effect how much lean angle is required for the same cornering line.

How were you measuring lean angle? I just datalog it. At the cursor that is about 20º. With the 160mm cranks and small pedals lots more is possible.

lean.jpeg

Does your datalogger also record road camber?

That could be done! Generally roads might be around 2-3 degrees for runoff. You can sense that from the lean angle in the straighter elements shown before / after the turn if you mentally filter out zig zags. You could also test on flat / open surfaces if no drainage lean was wanted in a test, many options.

[iflyadesk]

OCT 26, 2023 EDIT: Added new bikes since 2020. Removed all Rim brake bikes. Surely by now we can all agree the aero bikes of 2014-2016 with their proprietary rim brakes didn't work, couldn't be fixed when they broke, and were terribly stiff and uncomfortable so we can just move on now and pretend like they never existed.

I herniated my L5-S1 disc in 2020 which required surgery in 2021 and when I tried to start riding again I found the cars to be terrifying. I don't know how I never noticed before but now I've completely switched to mountain biking, which is why I kind of disappeared from this thread.

I saw today that Specialized was touting the new 2023 Tarmac SL8 did well on the Tour Mag Aero Test so I went and updated the chart on the first page with all the new bikes since 2020. Hope you enjoy. Hope it doesn't cost ya'll $14k for a new bike

[TobinHatesYou]

Image link is broken.

[iflyadesk]

Image link is broken.

Weird. It shows for me. I added an attachment, viewed it, and wrapped the url with an img tag. Do you know what might be wrong?

[mrbrown4001]

Image link is broken.

Broken for me as well


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