My adventures in chain waxing: goals, reviews, suggestions...

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MikeD
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

Aren't you supposed to pull the chain out when the wax temperature drops to where it's starts to solidify? Otherwise, when you pull the chain out most of the wax just runs out of the chain. Then you need to agitate the wax if it has an additive like WS2 or PTFE or MoS2. So it seems to me you can get better results but you have to watch the process and takes a hell of a lot more time and effort. The Crockpots are cheap, but take forever to heat up and temperature control is not good. Can an Instantpot be used for process automation?

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Lakal
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:20 pm

by Lakal

The wax doesn't run out of the chain if you take it out when the wax is hot.
I never let the wax cool before I pull out the chain and it works fine.
Adam from ZFC does the same.

MikeD
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

Lakal wrote:The wax doesn't run out of the chain if you take it out when the wax is hot.
I never let the wax cool before I pull out the chain and it works fine.
Adam from ZFC does the same.
That's not what @Tobinhatesyou says.

uppis
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:05 am

by uppis

MikeD wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:48 pm
Lakal wrote:The wax doesn't run out of the chain if you take it out when the wax is hot.
I never let the wax cool before I pull out the chain and it works fine.
Adam from ZFC does the same.
That's not what @Tobinhatesyou says.
No need to let the wax cool between chains, if you do let it cool it would take ages and you would take so much wax with the chain that it would not fit the chainrings at all.

https://moltenspeedwax.com/pages/waxing-your-chain

MikeD
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

uppis wrote:
MikeD wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:48 pm
Lakal wrote:The wax doesn't run out of the chain if you take it out when the wax is hot.
I never let the wax cool before I pull out the chain and it works fine.
Adam from ZFC does the same.
That's not what @Tobinhatesyou says.
No need to let the wax cool between chains, if you do let it cool it would take ages and you would take so much wax with the chain that it would not fit the chainrings at all.

https://moltenspeedwax.com/pages/waxing-your-chain
What temperature do you heat the wax to? I would think the hotter the lower the viscosity and the more likely the wax would run out of the chain. Isn't hot wax thinner than water?

uppis
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:05 am

by uppis

MikeD wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:33 pm
uppis wrote:
MikeD wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:48 pm
Lakal wrote:The wax doesn't run out of the chain if you take it out when the wax is hot.
I never let the wax cool before I pull out the chain and it works fine.
Adam from ZFC does the same.
That's not what @Tobinhatesyou says.
No need to let the wax cool between chains, if you do let it cool it would take ages and you would take so much wax with the chain that it would not fit the chainrings at all.

https://moltenspeedwax.com/pages/waxing-your-chain
What temperature do you heat the wax to? I would think the hotter the lower the viscosity and the more likely the wax would run out of the chain. Isn't hot wax thinner than water?
93c, that still leaves plenty of wax on the chain. And you want the wax inside of the chain, too much extra on the outside just flakes off quickly.

Lakal
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:20 pm

by Lakal

MikeD wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:48 pm
Lakal wrote:The wax doesn't run out of the chain if you take it out when the wax is hot.
I never let the wax cool before I pull out the chain and it works fine.
Adam from ZFC does the same.
That's not what @Tobinhatesyou says.
Ok.
The answer from Silca Josh is in the comments to this video:
"If you are doing multiple, I would just pull them hot.. allowing it to cool is maybe buying you a few additional % of wax in the chain and I typically save that strategy for special events or races. For everything else, you can go in and out at 195F or so and get 99% of the benefits and longevity in a fraction of the time spent waxing. - Josh"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3uSbNj ... =SILCAVelo

And Adam from ZFC in his comments to the OZ video:
"You may have seen another Oz cycle video re waxing where he is standing by his slow cooker pot
with a thermometer waiting for the wax to cool down to near 60dg Celsius (wax solid set point), he
then removes chain and dunks it in cold water to “lock in as much wax as possible”.
Pressures inside chain from rider load reach into the thousands of psi. Locking in more wax just
means more excess wax pressed out and flaking off making a big mess. After 10 mins of riding you
will have the same amount of wax inside chain doing Oz cycles method – which would be boring and
laborious indeed, vs just hanging chain to set after removing from pot at 90 degree’s Celsius and
hanging to set on a 40dg day."
Link: https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-c ... o-v1.2.pdf

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12457
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

It’s not laborious at all. You just f off for 90min and then come back. I’ve taken chains out at 170F, 180F, 190F, etc…it takes so long to wait for the dripping to stop. It actually takes up more of your time because instead of waiting 30s for the dripping to stop, you’re waiting several minutes per chain. If you have 4-5 chains to pull out, that time adds up.

Also IIRC, Poertner wasn’t too fussed about max temps either, dipping his chains at like 160-170F when we know optimal penetration occurs closer to 190-200F.

I’ve never had an issue manipulating my chains doing it this way. I don’t even “break” the links over a dowel/broomstick handle/hard edge.

And yes, don’t do what Oz Cycle does. I’ve made that much clear in the past.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Sun Apr 03, 2022 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lakal
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:20 pm

by Lakal

I just hang the chain on my JoeBlow pump over the pot to drip off while I put the new chain in the pot. No reason to stand and wait.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12457
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Lakal wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 8:14 pm
I just hang the chain on my JoeBlow pump over the pot to drip off while I put the new chain in the pot. No reason to stand and wait.

I put 4-5 chains in a 3.5qt InstantPot on the rice cooking setting, leave for 12min and then come back to swish them around. Then I unplug the pot and leave for 90min. Seems you’re spending way more time hovering over your setup than I am if you’re dipping one chain at a time. I just hang my chains on the garage door rails, still in their swisher tools.

But hey, you do you. It’s not a big deal … unlike the people in this thread who swear by Oz’s 1:10 PTFE:wax ratio.

Lakal
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:20 pm

by Lakal

Agreed. That would be a better solution than my slow-cooker. The instant pot is just so much more expensive in Denmark.

MikeD
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

TobinHatesYou wrote:It’s not laborious at all. You just f off for 90min and then come back. I’ve taken chains out at 170F, 180F, 190F, etc…it takes so long to wait for the dripping to stop. It actually takes up more of your time because instead of waiting 30s for the dripping to stop, you’re waiting several minutes per chain. If you have 4-5 chains to pull out, that time adds up.

Also IIRC, Poertner wasn’t too fussed about max temps either, dipping his chains at like 160-170F when we know optimal penetration occurs closer to 190-200F.

I’ve never had an issue manipulating my chains doing it this way. I don’t even “break” the links over a dowel/broomstick handle/hard edge.

And yes, don’t do what Oz Cycle does. I’ve made that much clear in the past.
This is why I'm hesitant to hot wax. There's too much conflicting BS about the method and the whole thing becomes a science experiment. What's wrong with using a drip wax like Silca SS? As long as I don't have to clean the chain between applications, it's a lot easier and takes less time. I don't even have to take the chain of the bike.


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usr
Posts: 889
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

MikeD wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:32 pm
This is why I'm hesitant to hot wax. There's too much conflicting BS about the method and the whole thing becomes a science experiment.
And it's a science experiment only if you run a setup like ZFC on the side. Otherwise, it's really more like a religion experiment...

(What happens if you don't pray? If you are used to going about your business having started the day with a prayer or two, chances are you won't feel comfortable without them and your days might go objectively worse. As long as it's not objectively wasteful, like throwing away the wax after a single use, do whatever makes you confident about having done enough.)

Mocs123
Posts: 826
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 9:19 pm

by Mocs123

Lakal wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 8:27 pm
Agreed. That would be a better solution than my slow-cooker. The instant pot is just so much more expensive in Denmark.
If you already have an Instant Pot that you use for food, you can buy a spare stainless "pot" for it to use for wax keeping the cost in line with a dedicated crock pot.
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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12457
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

MikeD wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:32 pm
This is why I'm hesitant to hot wax. There's too much conflicting BS about the method and the whole thing becomes a science experiment. What's wrong with using a drip wax like Silca SS? As long as I don't have to clean the chain between applications, it's a lot easier and takes less time. I don't even have to take the chain of the bike.

Nothing’s wrong with the latest generation of wax drip lubes. Silca SS and CeramicSpeed UFO get you almost all the benefits of hot melt wax. I rate CeramicSpeed a little better in terms of cleanliness and ease of use. Compared to hot melt wax, you get imperceptibly less efficiency,a little less distance per application at a higher cost.

Nothing is wrong with using plain high grade paraffin either.

by Weenie


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