My adventures in chain waxing: goals, reviews, suggestions...

[BigBoyND]

Once you are done cooking the steak or egg, you cut them open to check how cooked they are and adjust for next time. What is the equivalent of this check in waxing?

I'm only asking because I'm also new to waxing and don't know how to tell its time to re-apply

[TobinHatesYou]

Once you are done cooking the steak or egg, you cut them open to check how cooked they are and adjust for next time. What is the equivalent of this check in waxing?

I'm only asking because I'm also new to waxing and don't know how to tell its time to re-apply

Eventually shifts will start to get a little lazy. So you make a note of how loud your drivetrain was when that happened and then you relube a little earlier next time. Also we already know the ballpark endurance of these lubes. I tend to run hot-waxed chains for 400km, drip-waxed chains for 300km...which is on the safer side of things.

[Lakal]

I used Silca SS on my chain. Rode it on the road for a while. Nice. Did a dusty gravel ride yesterday and the chain became very noisy. Can't say I recommend Silca SS for mountain biking or gravel riding in dusty conditions. Smoove would have stood up to dusty conditions much better.

Smoove is not as good as Silca SS when it comes to wear. And if it's a metal to metal noise you must have done something wrong.

I am still curious how you managed to get the MSW prepped chain to look so bad.
Did you swish the chain in the wax before removing it from the wax?
And was the chain completely stripped from factory grease?

It was a used chain. Boiled it on the stove in water plus a little Simple Green to remove the Smoove that was on it before. Cleaned it in a cheap ultrasonic cleaner too but maybe didn't get it clean enough. ZFC cautions against using used chains so maybe it's some of that plus they don't like KMC chains either due to the surface coating on the chain which makes it hard for wax to adhere. Yes to your other questions. Since this is a road forum, maybe you guys don't ride in the dirt in dry dusty conditions. If I was hearing metal on metal, I would think I would hear a squeaking chain, which I didn't.

Question for Tobin, if not for the sound of the chain, how do you know when the chain needs rewaxing?

Now I understand your result with MSW. You need to clean the chain completely. KMC chains does not result in a dirty look like your chain so that is not the problem here.

How did you clean the Silca lubed chain and what is the lot nr of the lube? Silca lube can be a bit difficult to apply.

[MikeD]

I used Silca SS on my chain. Rode it on the road for a while. Nice. Did a dusty gravel ride yesterday and the chain became very noisy. Can't say I recommend Silca SS for mountain biking or gravel riding in dusty conditions. Smoove would have stood up to dusty conditions much better.

Smoove is not as good as Silca SS when it comes to wear. And if it's a metal to metal noise you must have done something wrong.

I am still curious how you managed to get the MSW prepped chain to look so bad.
Did you swish the chain in the wax before removing it from the wax?
And was the chain completely stripped from factory grease?

It was a used chain. Boiled it on the stove in water plus a little Simple Green to remove the Smoove that was on it before. Cleaned it in a cheap ultrasonic cleaner too but maybe didn't get it clean enough. ZFC cautions against using used chains so maybe it's some of that plus they don't like KMC chains either due to the surface coating on the chain which makes it hard for wax to adhere. Yes to your other questions. Since this is a road forum, maybe you guys don't ride in the dirt in dry dusty conditions. If I was hearing metal on metal, I would think I would hear a squeaking chain, which I didn't.

Question for Tobin, if not for the sound of the chain, how do you know when the chain needs rewaxing?

Now I understand your result with MSW. You need to clean the chain completely. KMC chains does not result in a dirty look like your chain so that is not the problem here.

How did you clean the Silca lubed chain and what is the lot nr of the lube? Silca lube can be a bit difficult to apply.

Lot #3. The Silca lubed chain was brand new. Soaked it in mineral spirits for 24 hrs and followed with an alcohol rinse.

[MikeD]

BTW Adam/ZFC’s worst testing block has him alternately spraying sand and water directly onto a running drivetrain…that’s more extreme than pretty much any real-world scenario. The newer wax drip lubes and hot melt waxes are clearly enduring better than Smoove. There is strong correlation between increased chain life / reduced elongation and reduced friction / the most efficient lubes. But hey, if you really believe Smoove is a better lube, no one (but you) is going to stop you from using it.

ZFC did not do a single application longevity test for Smoove. In the test report for Smoove, they said it was one of the longest lasting lubes they tested. No way I believe that any hot melt or drip on paraffin wax would last as long as Smoove between applications.

[TobinHatesYou]

BTW Adam/ZFC’s worst testing block has him alternately spraying sand and water directly onto a running drivetrain…that’s more extreme than pretty much any real-world scenario. The newer wax drip lubes and hot melt waxes are clearly enduring better than Smoove. There is strong correlation between increased chain life / reduced elongation and reduced friction / the most efficient lubes. But hey, if you really believe Smoove is a better lube, no one (but you) is going to stop you from using it.

ZFC did not do a single application longevity test for Smoove. In the test report for Smoove, they said it was one of the longest lasting lubes they tested. No way I believe that any hot melt or drip on paraffin wax would last as long as Smoove between applications.

Single application longevity doesn't matter to me because I simply don't ride more than 250mi in a single ride. What matters to me is long-term chain, cassette and chainring wear...as well as efficiency and cleanliness.

[MikeD]

BTW Adam/ZFC’s worst testing block has him alternately spraying sand and water directly onto a running drivetrain…that’s more extreme than pretty much any real-world scenario. The newer wax drip lubes and hot melt waxes are clearly enduring better than Smoove. There is strong correlation between increased chain life / reduced elongation and reduced friction / the most efficient lubes. But hey, if you really believe Smoove is a better lube, no one (but you) is going to stop you from using it.

ZFC did not do a single application longevity test for Smoove. In the test report for Smoove, they said it was one of the longest lasting lubes they tested. No way I believe that any hot melt or drip on paraffin wax would last as long as Smoove between applications.

Single application longevity doesn't matter to me because I simply don't ride more than 250mi in a single ride. What matters to me is long-term chain, cassette and chainring wear...as well as efficiency and cleanliness.

Well yeah, I agree with that, but I don't want the lubricant to fail mid ride either, which unfortunately is my experience with paraffin wax off-road. I might have to carry a tiny bottle of Silca SS for those eventualities. My current use of drip-on and hot melt parafin wax is an experiment. I tried it years ago and gave it up. I remember waxing my chain with a tin of Performance Bicycle Co. wax (had some Teflon mixed in) some years ago. The lube failed on a mountain bike ride and the chain was squeaking badly and had single ring chainsuck whenever I put a decent amount per pressure on the pedals.

[Lakal]

I am not sure that a 24 hour bath in the same mineral spirits is enough. Zfc recommends at least three baths.
If you want to give wax a fair chance you also have to do it right.

And be aware that the review of Smoove lube is pretty old. The new MSW lasts a lot longer than the old one. Same does the ufo drip if I remember correctly.
And when the Rex hot melt wax comes...

[TobinHatesYou]

I am not sure that a 24 hour bath in the same mineral spirits is enough. Zfc recommends at least three baths.
If you want to give wax a fair chance you also have to do it right.

And be aware that the review of Smoove lube is pretty old. The new MSW lasts a lot longer than the old one. Same does the ufo drip if I remember correctly.
And when the Rex hot melt wax comes...

Yeah, my procedure for a new chain is this:

Pour boiling water in ultrasonic cleaner basin.
I turn the heating element on the ultrasonic on.
Place chain in plastic container.
Pour hot water in plastic container so the chain is almost fully submersed.
Pour concentrated citrus degreaser (Zep Citrus) into container so the chain is submersed. It's probably a 5:1 water:degreaser mix.
I run the ultrasonic cleaner for 8 minutes.
I take the plastic container out, discard the dirty water-degreaser solution and pour in clean solution.
I do this 4x total for every chain.

[MikeD]

I am not sure that a 24 hour bath in the same mineral spirits is enough. Zfc recommends at least three baths.
If you want to give wax a fair chance you also have to do it right.

And be aware that the review of Smoove lube is pretty old. The new MSW lasts a lot longer than the old one. Same does the ufo drip if I remember correctly.
And when the Rex hot melt wax comes...

That generates a lot of waste product and I don't think it necessary. A new chain gets pretty damned clean with one overnight soak. The alcohol should take care of enough of the rest. After all, there's folks even in this thread that mix oil in with wax and claim good results. That's been a home brew recipe for ages. Isn't it just ZFC that says to get a chain to that level of cleanliness? Regardless, if I have to go through such an involved procedure generating a bunch of hazardous waste, wax isn't for me. Too much trouble. The frequency of reapplication has already giving me doubts. MSW will not last half as long as a Smoove application. Even Tobin says straight pariffin is almost as good so MSW isn't something magical. People have been waxing chains since probably the turn of the last century and it was a small number until that article appeared in Velonews, then everyone jumped on the band wagon and it became maybe a fad.

[rhender]

I am not sure that a 24 hour bath in the same mineral spirits is enough. Zfc recommends at least three baths.
If you want to give wax a fair chance you also have to do it right.

And be aware that the review of Smoove lube is pretty old. The new MSW lasts a lot longer than the old one. Same does the ufo drip if I remember correctly.
And when the Rex hot melt wax comes...

That generates a lot of waste product and I don't think it necessary. A new chain gets pretty damned clean with one overnight soak. The alcohol should take care of enough of the rest. After all, there's folks even in this thread that mix oil in with wax and claim good results. That's been a home brew recipe for ages. Isn't it just ZFC that says to get a chain to that level of cleanliness? Regardless, if I have to go through such an involved procedure generating a bunch of hazardous waste, wax isn't for me. Too much trouble. The frequency of reapplication has already giving me doubts. MSW will not last half as long as a Smoove application. Even Tobin says straight pariffin is almost as good so MSW isn't something magical. People have been waxing chains since probably the turn of the last century and it was a small number until that article appeared in Velonews, then everyone jumped on the band wagon and it became maybe a fad.

Agree with all aspects of this

[Lakal]

I am not sure that a 24 hour bath in the same mineral spirits is enough. Zfc recommends at least three baths.
If you want to give wax a fair chance you also have to do it right.

And be aware that the review of Smoove lube is pretty old. The new MSW lasts a lot longer than the old one. Same does the ufo drip if I remember correctly.
And when the Rex hot melt wax comes...

That generates a lot of waste product and I don't think it necessary. A new chain gets pretty damned clean with one overnight soak. The alcohol should take care of enough of the rest. After all, there's folks even in this thread that mix oil in with wax and claim good results. That's been a home brew recipe for ages. Isn't it just ZFC that says to get a chain to that level of cleanliness? Regardless, if I have to go through such an involved procedure generating a bunch of hazardous waste, wax isn't for me. Too much trouble. The frequency of reapplication has already giving me doubts. MSW will not last half as long as a Smoove application. Even Tobin says straight pariffin is almost as good so MSW isn't something magical. People have been waxing chains since probably the turn of the last century and it was a small number until that article appeared in Velonews, then everyone jumped on the band wagon and it became maybe a fad.

You could just use 200ml of UFO cleaner instead and hot water afterwards. That works fine.
ZFC says 600km for one application of the new MSW in dry road conditions and 550km in dry gravel conditions.
But you have to clean the chain properly. Otherwise, you will end up with a dirty chain like the chain on your picture.
And btw, I don't see MSW as something magical. I haven't tested paraffin so I cannot compare.

Update: here is a link to the recommended cleaning method from Silca: https://silca.cc/pages/how-to-apply-chain-lube

[TobinHatesYou]

When using d-limonene / citrus degreaser, the most harmful substance is the factory grease being dissolved into it. Take it to a hazardous waste disposal facility. The degreaser itself is just about the least hazardous / toxic product you can use which is still effective.

[MikeD]

Assuming that your ultrasonic cleaner has a heater that can get hot enough to melt wax, has anyone tried waxing in the ultrasonic cleaner? I've got one on order that Silca recommends and the temperature can go up to 175 deg.

[velomane]

Assuming that your ultrasonic cleaner has a heater that can get hot enough to melt wax, has anyone tried waxing in the ultrasonic cleaner? I've got one on order that Silca recommends and the temperature can go up to 175 deg.

Can you post a link to that cleaner?