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neomoz
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:38 am

by neomoz

70psi for my weight(82kg) means the tyres will feel a bit flat, bouncy that's all. The point being the optimal PSI for your weight will more than likely be above that 72.5 limit so you need to make sure the tyre can handle the extra pressure and not slip off.

So lately I was getting a creaking/ticking sound coming from my handlebar area, it was happening when I was grabing the hoods climbing hard out of the saddle, at first I thought it was the shimano hoods creaking, torqued them correctly but still the same noise.

So it had to be coming from the stem clamp area, I was using the giant stem garmin mount, as I proceeded to remove it I noticed the rubber washers had disentigrated, so where the mount holds the bottom face plate bolts it was moving enough to creak which is concerning imo.

I put the original stem screws back on and noticed the handlebar felt firmer while tugging on the hoods and the creaking/ticking noise was gone. I would avoid using the giant stem garmin mount, I kept having issues where over large bumps the arm wouldn't hold my garmin in the tightened position and the way these rubber washers breakdown creating extra play in the stem clamp is a bit of a safety issue imo.

I've attached a photo of the rubber washer failure. FYI Everything was torqued to 5nm as specified on the stem.
IMG_20210927_173000989_HDR.jpg

darrydonds
Posts: 192
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:04 am

by darrydonds

neomoz wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:38 am
70psi for my weight(82kg) means the tyres will feel a bit flat, bouncy that's all. The point being the optimal PSI for your weight will more than likely be above that 72.5 limit so you need to make sure the tyre can handle the extra pressure and not slip off.
So if the rider is light enough for an "optimal PSI" below 72.5, that'd in theory mean tyres with max pressure above 72.5psi not on Giant's list should work fine for that rider?
neomoz wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:38 am
So lately I was getting a creaking/ticking sound coming from my handlebar area, it was happening when I was grabing the hoods climbing hard out of the saddle, at first I thought it was the shimano hoods creaking, torqued them correctly but still the same noise.

So it had to be coming from the stem clamp area, I was using the giant stem garmin mount, as I proceeded to remove it I noticed the rubber washers had disentigrated, so where the mount holds the bottom face plate bolts it was moving enough to creak which is concerning imo.

I put the original stem screws back on and noticed the handlebar felt firmer while tugging on the hoods and the creaking/ticking noise was gone. I would avoid using the giant stem garmin mount, I kept having issues where over large bumps the arm wouldn't hold my garmin in the tightened position and the way these rubber washers breakdown creating extra play in the stem clamp is a bit of a safety issue imo.

I've attached a photo of the rubber washer failure. FYI Everything was torqued to 5nm as specified on the stem.
IMG_20210927_173000989_HDR.jpg
Thanks for the heads-up. Maybe you should report this to Giant and/or the bike shop. I rather like that Giant computer mount.

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User avatar
bedampft
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:04 pm

by bedampft

Why would you not remove those? Those rubber rings where never meant to stay on the screws. The only job they had was keeping the screws in place whilst everything is in the package.

darrydonds
Posts: 192
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:04 am

by darrydonds

bedampft wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:03 pm
Why would you not remove those? Those rubber rings where never meant to stay on the screws. The only job they had was keeping the screws in place whilst everything is in the package.
Interestingly, mine too was installed with those rubber rings on.

avalanche00
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:46 am

by avalanche00

darrydonds wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:23 pm
bedampft wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:03 pm
Why would you not remove those? Those rubber rings where never meant to stay on the screws. The only job they had was keeping the screws in place whilst everything is in the package.
Interestingly, mine too was installed with those rubber rings on.
Didn't even notice them! I installed it myself

User avatar
Raimundo
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:55 pm
Location: Flanders

by Raimundo

bedampft wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:03 pm
Why would you not remove those? Those rubber rings where never meant to stay on the screws. The only job they had was keeping the screws in place whilst everything is in the package.
+100

neomoz
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:38 am

by neomoz

bedampft wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:03 pm
Why would you not remove those? Those rubber rings where never meant to stay on the screws. The only job they had was keeping the screws in place whilst everything is in the package.
I didn't install it, my giant dealer had installed it for me. Also the rubber washer is facing the stem, it doesn't hold the assembly at all, assembly holds together fine without it. I've found other photos online of it installed and the rubber washer is meant to be between the stem and unit because I was unsure about it too. Not sure why they used a rubber washer instead of a normal metal one? Maybe it's to dampen vibrations?

User avatar
bedampft
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:04 pm

by bedampft

neomoz wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:08 pm
bedampft wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:03 pm
Why would you not remove those? Those rubber rings where never meant to stay on the screws. The only job they had was keeping the screws in place whilst everything is in the package.
I didn't install it, my giant dealer had installed it for me. Also the rubber washer is facing the stem, it doesn't hold the assembly at all, assembly holds together fine without it. I've found other photos online of it installed and the rubber washer is meant to be between the stem and unit because I was unsure about it too. Not sure why they used a rubber washer instead of a normal metal one? Maybe it's to dampen vibrations?
Of course they are facing the stem plate. :roll: They are meant to keep the long screws and the two short sleeves together on the computer mount. Those parts are shipped in one plastic bag, pre assembled. The stem is already on the bike, with the faceplate and 4 short screws.
Those two rings don't ever go on the bike. Its just stupid to not remove them. It's like leaving the dork disc behind the cassette.

neomoz
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:38 am

by neomoz

Ok I see what you guys are on about. There was still a tiny bit of rubber on the thread, I cut it away and the assembly then fell apart like you guys described. Thx bedampft and Raimundo for pointing this out.

So yeah the dealer should not have installed it with those rubber washers/o rings.

Here is a pic.
IMG_20210928_090456467_HDR.jpg
I guess for others that have found they have the rubber o rings on, remove them asap!

I won't be putting mine back on, just went for a good ride and handlebars feel really solid now. I'll stick with the old elastic band mount on top of my stem.

darrydonds
Posts: 192
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:04 am

by darrydonds

Thanks Giant for the typical piss-poor documentation. :mrgreen:

(The bike shop installed mine.)

neomoz
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:38 am

by neomoz

darrydonds wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:02 pm
neomoz wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:38 am
70psi for my weight(82kg) means the tyres will feel a bit flat, bouncy that's all. The point being the optimal PSI for your weight will more than likely be above that 72.5 limit so you need to make sure the tyre can handle the extra pressure and not slip off.
So if the rider is light enough for an "optimal PSI" below 72.5, that'd in theory mean tyres with max pressure above 72.5psi not on Giant's list should work fine for that rider?
In theory you should be fine, although I'm sure Giant's lawyers wouldn't agree if you had a tyre blow off. They would probably fall back onto the fact the tyre isn't approved. Would also be hard to prove what PSI you were running before the accident.

This is the massive achiles heel with this wheelset, I've found they're excellent wheels, it's just the tyre selection limitation is a pain. I plan to move to schwalbe ones once the factory set wears out.

gdnicoll
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 8:32 pm

by gdnicoll

neomoz wrote:Ok I see what you guys are on about. There was still a tiny bit of rubber on the thread, I cut it away and the assembly then fell apart like you guys described. Thx bedampft and Raimundo for pointing this out.

So yeah the dealer should not have installed it with those rubber washers/o rings.

Here is a pic.
IMG_20210928_090456467_HDR.jpg
I guess for others that have found they have the rubber o rings on, remove them asap!

I won't be putting mine back on, just went for a good ride and handlebars feel really solid now. I'll stick with the old elastic band mount on top of my stem.
Thanks all for this discussion. I have also just removed the o-rings from mine after installing the mount with them in place, more than a year ago. They looked in similar shape when they came off. This is for a similar mount for a previous MY.

In hindsight it all makes sense. At the time I wondered what purpose the o-rings served. But it never occurred to me that it was just packaging. A good packaging solution, but a little too good without some clear instruction to remove them before installation.


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darrydonds
Posts: 192
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:04 am

by darrydonds

neomoz wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:23 am
In theory you should be fine, although I'm sure Giant's lawyers wouldn't agree if you had a tyre blow off. They would probably fall back onto the fact the tyre isn't approved. Would also be hard to prove what PSI you were running before the accident.

This is the massive achiles heel with this wheelset, I've found they're excellent wheels, it's just the tyre selection limitation is a pain. I plan to move to schwalbe ones once the factory set wears out.
I have the exact sentiment about those wheels. I visit the Giant website from time to time, hoping that the list of compatible tyres got longer.

Due to reports of premature failure by punctures, I was anxious running with the stock cadex tyres. I inspect them after almost every ride and manually patch the cuts with sealant. In several occasions, I have found a shard of glass embedded into the exterior shell of the tyre but it didn't pierce all the way through. Anyway, I have so far done more than 2000km on those stock tyres. So they've done their job after all. I have a pair of Schwalbe Pro Ones ready to replace them but hopefully, those cadex will last until the end of the season.

avalanche00
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:46 am

by avalanche00

To me this shows how amateur the cycling industry is. How can rim manufacturers go ahead with hookless without having big tire manufacturers support it??? Anyway, I think what happens is that ETRTO limit for hookless is 73.5PSI regardless of width. I really doubt that Pzero 26 which is not recommended is made differently than 28. I guess the issue is that heavier riders need to go beyond that 73.5 limit on the 26, so Pirelli said dont use them. Probably they dont want a lawsuit on their hands.

Also, I checked the ZIPP website. Their approved tire list is not much better than Giant.

Zipp Tangente Course G40 XPLR gravel tire
Zipp Tangente Speed RT25 and RT28 (both discontinued)
Michelin
Schwalbe
Rene Herse
Pirelli
*353 NSW, 404 Firecrest, and 454 NSW hookless rims are not compatible with 26mm Pirelli TLR tires.
Goodyear
Panaracer
Specialized: SW Turbo RapidAir in sizes 700x26*, 700x28, and 700x30
*303 Firecrest and 353 NSW hookless rims are not compatible with the 26mm tire.

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Nickldn
Posts: 1867
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

avalanche00 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:43 pm
To me this shows how amateur the cycling industry is. How can rim manufacturers go ahead with hookless without having big tire manufacturers support it??? Anyway, I think what happens is that ETRTO limit for hookless is 73.5PSI regardless of width. I really doubt that Pzero 26 which is not recommended is made differently than 28. I guess the issue is that heavier riders need to go beyond that 73.5 limit on the 26, so Pirelli said dont use them. Probably they dont want a lawsuit on their hands.

Also, I checked the ZIPP website. Their approved tire list is not much better than Giant.

Zipp Tangente Course G40 XPLR gravel tire
Zipp Tangente Speed RT25 and RT28 (both discontinued)
Michelin
Schwalbe
Rene Herse
Pirelli
*353 NSW, 404 Firecrest, and 454 NSW hookless rims are not compatible with 26mm Pirelli TLR tires.
Goodyear
Panaracer
Specialized: SW Turbo RapidAir in sizes 700x26*, 700x28, and 700x30
*303 Firecrest and 353 NSW hookless rims are not compatible with the 26mm tire.
I don't think it's about being amateurish, I think it's about being arrogant and money grabbing.

Giant has been a hookless early adopter and sells a range of compatible tyres. In their corporate mind they are providing customers with a ready made solution: Giant/Cadex hookless rims and a range of compatible Giant/Cadex tyres. Why would the customer possibly need more choice? They don't want customers buying non Giant/Cadex branded tyres, as it reduces their profits. Locking the customer in is their goal.

The same has happened with proprietary stems/bars/seatposts in the past few years. Vendor lock in means more profit.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg

Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg

SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress

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