Ressources on Campagnolo Hydraulic Groupset installation

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Yoln
Posts: 965
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:26 pm

by Yoln

I am going to install a H11/super-record groupset on my new bike, and that'll be the first time for me dealing with hydraulic/disc brakes.

I have found a bit of help through Campagnolo's official videos, but that's not detailed enough for my needs, specially as it seems like I have a slightly different version of the H11 than on the video... Same for the user's manual in the box which is more aimed at the end user once the brakes have been installed than at the amateur mechanic.

Would you have any tutorial (text video) that could help me on that?
Litespeed Gravel Ultimate : https://tinyurl.com/zvxxy8zk
Wilier “Cento Ramato“ : https://tinyurl.com/29vs8vre
#RETIRED# Lynskey “the Do-it-all Helix” 🧬:https://tinyurl.com/bdmb5y24

c60rider
Posts: 872
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

You can have a look at my personal trials and tribulations of doing just this on my first and final hydro disc build that's now consigned to history and been replaced by a rim brake bike...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=157590

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Yoln
Posts: 965
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:26 pm

by Yoln

Wow, that was not what I wanted to read just now in the middle of my new build mess! (But thank you still, help very much appreciated).

And on your point about disc/rim, I know they are not ideal, but they make me feel safer on long downhills. Since I switched from Aloy to Carbon rim I feel very unsafe with the terrible braking power, so disc are the good decision for me, but I can understand your arguments. Would definitely use rim brakes on a TT or aero built though

Also for those interested, I found this doc very helpful to help me understand some specificities of the H11 brakes : https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... 19_ENG.pdf
Litespeed Gravel Ultimate : https://tinyurl.com/zvxxy8zk
Wilier “Cento Ramato“ : https://tinyurl.com/29vs8vre
#RETIRED# Lynskey “the Do-it-all Helix” 🧬:https://tinyurl.com/bdmb5y24

c60rider
Posts: 872
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

Go with whatever brakes you feel suit you that was what I learned. But you may come across some of the slight issues that I had being a complete newbie with discs so by all means fire a message across and I'll almost certainly have had to do it myself.

Main issues I had were trying to get the front disc centred when I torqued up the front caliper. Partly it was due to the disc not being straight and it was replaced under warranty. The other reason I just couldn't work out why but the caliper just seemed to move fractionally as I did the final tighten on the bolt. Much in the same way I find brake blocks want to rotate when torquing those up at the last twist. I eventually got it straight through trial and error. But it's extremely sensitive the sweet spot to having pads rub on the disc or not. And it's affected by being out of the saddle so until I got it perfectly centred then it would rub. And of course it rubbed after braking hard until the disc cooled. For me all very annoying.

The other one from memory (I've tried to wipe it all from my mind!) was the bleeding (literally!!) rear brake. The Campy tech guy cooly shows you sucking fluid out at the caliper end while flicking the lever. It was this final stage that continually seemed to suck air back into the system no matter what I seemed to do or how tight the bleed kit was connected up. I eventually decided to skip this final section and just push and pull fluid through more times, along with pushing fluid from the caliper side into the system while flicking the lever. This seemed to get pretty much all the air out and I had no issues with the brake subsequently.

I put threadlocker on the centre locks on the wheels, I didn't fancy the discs coming loose. I'm not sure if this was recommended or not I just did it for extra security. The one hose kinked as I was feeding it through. I bent it a few times to straighten it as best as I could and it never caused a problem but they seem much easier to bend than your normal gear or brake cables. I also shoved as much extra hose into the frame as I was able to so I had the option to be able to cut ends off and re-start etc.

Can't think of anything else off-hand but good luck! And of course show us the build/outcome! :thumbup:

User avatar
Miller
Posts: 2764
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

I've installed a couple of Campag hydro disc groups, love those brakes. The Campag training videos on youtube were useful.

Yes, gritty discs make scraping noises and wet pads screech until they get hot and dry out. It's not the end of the world.

carbonazza
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:14 am

by carbonazza

+1 for Campagnolo's YouTube channel.
A few PDF(very well done in general) from
https://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Support/download
And some advices of Graeme here in the forum, were enough to help me build my EPS12 bike

Don't worry about the brakes, as usual the unhappy ones are more vocal than the happy ones.

jzinckgra
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:55 pm
Location: Maine, USA

by jzinckgra

Trying to install front campy caliper on parlee rz7. Not sure how to attach to fork as caliper does not have threaded inserts nor does the fork.

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c60rider
Posts: 872
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

jzinckgra wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:33 pm
Trying to install front campy caliper on parlee rz7. Not sure how to attach to fork as caliper does not have threaded inserts nor does the fork.

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If the fork doesn't have threaded inserts then either it's a faulty fork or they're expecting you to cut the thread yourself which clearly shouldn't be the case. Contact the seller in the first instance on this. If they advise you to deal with Parlee then go to them.

mag
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

How do the mounts on the fork look like? I've found only photos with the cover.
If you have the front-specific caliper, that should be installed right onto the fork with the supplied bolts.
If you have the rear caliper instead, that should be installed via an adaptor. First you attach the caliper to the adaptor and then the whole thing to the fork...

In any case the fork should have holes with threads as you'll definitely need to screw something in.

jzinckgra
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:55 pm
Location: Maine, USA

by jzinckgra

I emailed the seller and they were using shimano which has threaded calipers. Campys rear caliper is threaded so no issue there, but front is not. The caliper holes are also spaced wider than fork holes so I'll have to use adaptor plate, but still no way to attach these pieces to the fork. I emailed parlee. I have a bad feeling they are going to say this frame isn't designed for campy hydraulics. Image

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jzinckgra
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:55 pm
Location: Maine, USA

by jzinckgra

One more picImage

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mag
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

By the way I recently built one DB bike and while I can call the end result as success, I had a similar experience to what c60rider described in his infamour Ribble build thread. In a few points:
  • - After 2 unsuccessful facing attempts at 2 different bike shops (both used the Park facing tool, in both cases the results were just bad) I decided to purchase the facing tool (in my case the Cyclus one which can face both holes simultaneously) and perform the facing myself. A purchase I didn't really want to make.

    - During bleeding I discovered leak at one lever, fortunately was able to fix it myself by disassembling it, cleaning it thoroughly and reassembling with torquing everything exactly to spec.

    - Everytime I pressed the brake lever during the bleeding, some air got in. There are already threads about it here such as viewtopic.php?t=153263 and viewtopic.php?t=162234 so it isn't something new and unique to me. In the end I had to work around it by modifying the bleed procedure similarly to what others have described in those threads, though I don't think the result is as good as it could be.

    - The rear caliper was located too much towards the outside of the bike so it always rubbed on the inside of the rotor and there was no way how to get it centered because the holes on the frame didn't allow more movement towards the inside. I could use a shim, but didn't want to go that way with the main wheels, so I ended up sanding some material off the inside of those holes, then could finally center the caliper properly.

    - Lazy piston on the front caliper. There's always some difference in the movement of each piston, but here it was just too much - one didn't move at all until the other one stopped moving. Brought it to one certified Campy mechanic who fixed that (he said he disassembled it, sanded the piston very slightly, cleaned everything and relubed it with the brake fluid - if I encounter it next time I will do it myself).

    - Centering of both calipers was the final source of great entertainment as they always moved a tiny bit during the tightening of bolts and the Campy system has so tight tolerances that even a slight movement was problematic and even if not, I just wasn't satisfied with the result until it was exactly as I wanted it to be. Because the Campy C3 rotors (the ones with the aluminium spider) are quite flexy, doing the thing such keeping the brake lever pressed, placing few pieces of paper between the rotor and the calipers, or using the Hayes tool didn't help, so I spent a lot of time on it until I was finally satisfied.

    - Oh and both rotors were more or less out of true so I had to fix that as well, but that was just a minor issue when compared to the others. :-D
To summarize I don't think the current DB tech is mature enough for the road application. The flat mount seems just stupid (relies on great precision everywhere while the real world isn't that good) and bleeding - at least in the case of Campy (where bleeding ports aren't at both ends of the fluid path) - leaves a lot to be desired. Too much hassle if something isn't perfect.

welchy
Posts: 458
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:04 pm

by welchy

I've now built my campy hydro group across x4 framesets with no real issues. Advice is as follows:

-get extra olives and barbs before you start
-buy the park tool barn insert
-buy a good hose cutter for a smooth cut
-buy the campy bleed kit and campy centering tool

-spend the time on rhe bleed
-have an 8mm open spanner for the rear bleed bolts always at hand and a 3mm Allen key!!

Nickldn
Posts: 1865
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

Sample size of one, but my Chorus 12s groupset went on smoothly.

I bought the bleed kit, caliper fill level insert and a lifeline barb tool though, as installation would be a bit tricky otherwise.

I managed to cut the hose well enough without a dedicated tool and installing the olives was fine. Bleeding was also quite straightforward, but took a bit of time.

Finally, aligning the calipers with the disks was fine once the bleeding was done. Haven't had brake rub, even if riding in some shitty weather.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg

Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg

SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress

mag
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

jzinckgra: It looks like it's designed to be used with directly attached rear caliper e.g. the Campy front-specific one is of no use there unfortunately.

welchy & Nickldn: Good for you. I had many issues and most were of the type one shouldn't have to deal with at all.

by Weenie


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