Wait... there are Vittoria latex tubes with Graphene now? No words on that even on Vittoria's website.bilwit wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:31 amI also don't really understand the appeal of Turbolitos when we have latex. More supple, less weight, better rolling resistance, equal or less the price. The air loss/convenience is aspect is fair, but if you use the latest Vittoria ones with the added graphene, it's a lot easier to live with. I would say it's nearly 2x better at holding air, reducing a every-single-day inflation to maybe-every-day (just to top it off, but still rideable without) but definitely-every-other-day, depending on where you start/finish of course. Pumping it up before riding every day was never a big deal to me though.
Some people have had good experiences with the super thin butyl tubes like Conti supersonic or whatever their thinnest model is called but personally I found them extremely fragile and way more prone to pinch flat.
Tubolito road tubes - worthwhile or not?
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Tubes are best cheap and cheerful. For those that rarely flat then expensive tubes are not an issue.
For someone who punctures alot then expensive tubes are not worthwhile.
Also if the op only weight saving is these expensive tubes then that will make no difference. 140g saved is not going to make the ride any easier. It's a sportive not a race.
I have tried light tubes and latex and all they did was make punctures more expensive and occasionally blowout. They are simply not worth the effort. Nothing slower than a puncture.
Tubes in any case are best stuffed inside a tyre and then sewn up and stuck to a rim. Those lightweight conti tubes are relaible in a tub. In a clincher best avoided.
For someone who punctures alot then expensive tubes are not worthwhile.
Also if the op only weight saving is these expensive tubes then that will make no difference. 140g saved is not going to make the ride any easier. It's a sportive not a race.
I have tried light tubes and latex and all they did was make punctures more expensive and occasionally blowout. They are simply not worth the effort. Nothing slower than a puncture.
Tubes in any case are best stuffed inside a tyre and then sewn up and stuck to a rim. Those lightweight conti tubes are relaible in a tub. In a clincher best avoided.
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Conti supersonic is pretty extreme, and indeed very fragile. I am having in mind more continental race light or specialized turbo - at 75 and 70g or so respectively. This strikes a good balance IMO between reliability, weight and RR as far as conventional tubes go.bilwit wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:31 amI also don't really understand the appeal of Turbolitos when we have latex. More supple, less weight, better rolling resistance, equal or less the price. The air loss/convenience is aspect is fair, but if you use the latest Vittoria ones with the added graphene, it's a lot easier to live with. I would say it's nearly 2x better at holding air, reducing a every-single-day inflation to maybe-every-day (just to top it off, but still rideable without) but definitely-every-other-day, depending on where you start/finish of course. Pumping it up before riding every day was never a big deal to me though.
Some people have had good experiences with the super thin butyl tubes like Conti supersonic or whatever their thinnest model is called but personally I found them extremely fragile and way more prone to pinch flat.
Here is the Silca owner talking about it:Dan Gerous wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:36 pmWait... there are Vittoria latex tubes with Graphene now? No words on that even on Vittoria's website.
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost ... stcount=41As for latex, look at the modern latex, we sell tubes made by Vittoria which have a new formula with graphene in them and leak so much slower than the old ones. When we plotted Cancellara's roubaix run in 2010, we measured his tires to have nearly 1psi per hour loss.. so we tuned pressures so they would be perfect a few hours into the race when he was on the worst cobbles.. The new generation of latex tubes might lose 4-5psi per 24 hours, and will save you 2-5 watts per tire which is a bigger savings than a full ceramic bearing upgrade for about 1/50th the price!!
I'm the OP - I'm not looking for speed on flats or descents, it's a hilly sportive (205km with 2600m elevation) so I'm looking to lower my rotating mass. I'm not being falsely modest to say I am very weak on a bike, and realistically I think I've committed myself to something my body can't cope with.....but I'll ride until I can't, then call the sag wagon for rescue
If I complete it, I sincerely expect to be the last rider on the course
As always, I'll carry 2 of my normal butyl tubes in my saddle bag in case of flats.
I have used Panaracer R'air and they are pretty good and light (66g).
Also used latex for a while but got tired of having to pump them up all the time and had a blow out due to the tube creeping under the tire bead.
But now I just use Michelin Airstop, I buy them real cheap from Merlin and I like the smooth valve stem.
Also used latex for a while but got tired of having to pump them up all the time and had a blow out due to the tube creeping under the tire bead.
But now I just use Michelin Airstop, I buy them real cheap from Merlin and I like the smooth valve stem.
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Stickman wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:41 pmI'm the OP - I'm not looking for speed on flats or descents, it's a hilly sportive (205km with 2600m elevation) so I'm looking to lower my rotating mass. I'm not being falsely modest to say I am very weak on a bike, and realistically I think I've committed myself to something my body can't cope with.....but I'll ride until I can't, then call the sag wagon for rescue
If I complete it, I sincerely expect to be the last rider on the course
As always, I'll carry 2 of my normal butyl tubes in my saddle bag in case of flats.
100g in rotating mass doesn't really matter when the human riding it weighs, say 65000g. The watts you lose from friction are more important.
Are those Conti Supersonics really that fragile once mounted? I have heard that mounting is very risky but once mounted they have similar puncture resistance to other tubes (=none:). I can see them very often on weightweenie members bikes. To me it seems like a good option if you have problems with tubeless and don´t want latex pumping maintainance. When searching for light tubeless alternative, what is your favourite? Skip 50g territory and choose either Conti Race Lights or Michelin latex? Seems to me so reading this thread..
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Yes they are. I remember once riding down the road on a club run and bang goes my super sonic tube. I did not use them after that. It wasn't a puncture or a pot hole it just failed.
Also if your after lower rolling resistance latex tubes are the only way except I had numerous tube failures and unexplained punctures with Vittoria latex tubes. Gave up on them too. Nothing slower than a flat tyre and my experience with light tubes has not been great. Since the op is not racing why bother.
Yesterday so many turned up on there fast race day bikes for a local club reliability trial. While I'm sure they enjoyed it. I enjoyed it on a heavy steel bike (with full length mudguards and a sensible rear rack as it's also my commutor bike) averaging 16 mph.
Faster kit is fine if it relaible day to day. If it isnt then it's not worth it. Tubilito tubes are expensive enough to be not worth iron price alone. Its an inner tube after all. A latex tube is alot less. The rolling resistance gain of latex will weight the lower mass of tublito tubes. Pun intended.
Also if your after lower rolling resistance latex tubes are the only way except I had numerous tube failures and unexplained punctures with Vittoria latex tubes. Gave up on them too. Nothing slower than a flat tyre and my experience with light tubes has not been great. Since the op is not racing why bother.
Yesterday so many turned up on there fast race day bikes for a local club reliability trial. While I'm sure they enjoyed it. I enjoyed it on a heavy steel bike (with full length mudguards and a sensible rear rack as it's also my commutor bike) averaging 16 mph.
Faster kit is fine if it relaible day to day. If it isnt then it's not worth it. Tubilito tubes are expensive enough to be not worth iron price alone. Its an inner tube after all. A latex tube is alot less. The rolling resistance gain of latex will weight the lower mass of tublito tubes. Pun intended.
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I had similar experiences with supersonics to what bmp mentioned above, still have one that I will probably never bother to install...just not worth it.
Likewise as mentioned earlier, do no ride tubolitos if you have rim brakes and and kind of even moderately fast downhills. When I had a blow out on a front wheel, I didn't go down but lost control enough to enf up in the oncoming lane. Thought I was dead but skimmed right by the cars coming up the hill. That was the end of my trial with tubolitos...could hav been much more expensive than the tubes themselves.
Likewise as mentioned earlier, do no ride tubolitos if you have rim brakes and and kind of even moderately fast downhills. When I had a blow out on a front wheel, I didn't go down but lost control enough to enf up in the oncoming lane. Thought I was dead but skimmed right by the cars coming up the hill. That was the end of my trial with tubolitos...could hav been much more expensive than the tubes themselves.
I have extensive experiences with the Supersonic. The issue with it is consistency. Some tubes will last one year or more with absolutely no issues. Some tubes will have premature deaths. It's just hard to manufacture a tube that thin with consistency. Not wanting to risk hassles I switched to Maxxis Ultralight tubes at 66g. These are much much more consistent and reliable than the Supersonic. Currently I have switched to Vittoria latex and there's no comparison in terms of rolling resistance. Latex is much faster than even the Supersonics. I'm getting very few punctures too with the Vittoria.
Been using Supersonics with Conti GP4000 25s for more than a year now without a single puncture. Did kill one once when installing, but that was just me being careless.hannawald wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:38 amAre those Conti Supersonics really that fragile once mounted? I have heard that mounting is very risky but once mounted they have similar puncture resistance to other tubes (=none:). I can see them very often on weightweenie members bikes. To me it seems like a good option if you have problems with tubeless and don´t want latex pumping maintainance. When searching for light tubeless alternative, what is your favourite? Skip 50g territory and choose either Conti Race Lights or Michelin latex? Seems to me so reading this thread..
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i have just bought a bunch of Supersonics based on positive reviews, both here and at the shops..now it seems like the mood in this thread is just the opposite.
There was an interesting information about graphene infused latex keeping the air much better, but no official info from the manufacturer, which i would have expected if true..
There was an interesting information about graphene infused latex keeping the air much better, but no official info from the manufacturer, which i would have expected if true..