What frames/bikes to consider - Aero sub 8kg no cable showing

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
BeefCake
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:53 am

by BeefCake

Hi,

This is my first post, so sorry if this breaks the rules in any way.

I am currenlty on a stock Cerélo S5 (ultegra) 2016 with Zipp 303 tubulars.
However over the last 6000km I've spent about £1200 just on punctures (no I will not glue my own tire - tried twice... and I have tried several tire brands).
I live in Norway, so there are lots of long downhills which makes carbon rims not ideal when I am on the heavy side (85kgs).
It will also be nice to build a bike for the future with a cable free cockpit and electric gearing (I am fine with Ultegra Di2).

The bikes/frames that tick all the boxes as far as I can see is:
Specialized Venge
Cannondale SystemSix (what is the difference between hi-mod and regular?)
Trek Madone (on the heavy side?)
Factor One (reports of waterbottles becoming undrinkable due to split downtube..)
BMC Timemachine
Cervélo S5 and S3 (on the heavy side?)
Giant Advance (not really fan of that stem..)
Yoeleo (Chinese brand that gets lots of good reviews, but is on the heavy side)

There are other alternatives that are semi aero but have all cables hidden, like the Orbea Orca OMX, BMC Roadmachine etc, but I would prefer it to be proper aero looking.
That being said there are some good "budget" alternatives like Canyon Aeroad, Merida Reacto or Orbea Orca Aero, Scott Foil, but as far as I know they all lack cable free cockpits (unless you can swap the fork for the Orbea Orca OMX with the fork for Orbea Orca Aero??).

Any other frames/bikes I should look at? What do you recon gives the most bang for the buck? I tend to swap bikes every 4th year or so, so residual value do matter (i.e. in Norway Specialized/Trek will always resell at a premium price due to demand compared to Giant or the slightly lesser known ones).

Hexsense
Posts: 1070
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

BeefCake wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:12 pm
there are lots of long downhills which makes carbon rims not ideal when I am on the heavy side (85kgs).
Doesn't matter if it is disc brake, all bike in your list have disc version or exclusively disc. And rim brake can't hide the cable as well as disc version.
BeefCake wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:12 pm
The bikes/frames that tick all the boxes as far as I can see is:
Specialized Venge
Cannondale SystemSix (what is the difference between hi-mod and regular?)
Trek Madone (on the heavy side?)
Factor One (reports of waterbottles becoming undrinkable due to split downtube..)
BMC Timemachine
Cervélo S5 and S3 (on the heavy side?)
Giant Advance (not really fan of that stem..)
Yoeleo (Chinese brand that gets lots of good reviews, but is on the heavy side)
Your selection list is so wide, it can trim down a lot based on geometry alone. Even without considering aero feature etc.

If you are on size 48-52 (unlikely, given your weight):
From your list, only Venge, SystemSix, Timemachine road and both Cervelo have better than average handling characteristic (via dedicated fork for small sizes to neutralize trail value to the same/similar to larger sizes).

If you are on size 54 and up, all are great.
SystemSix hi-mod vs non hi-mod is mostly about 200g weight difference (by using stiffer carbon in some places, you can use less carbon and end up the same stiffness level).
Venge pro vs S-works Venge are the same frame with different name.

BMC Timemachine Road has trail value=62mm while the rest of this list set medium to XXL bike's trail value around 58mm. Handling will feel a little more stable and less agile than the rest of the list. Buy BMC if this is what you want.
Cervelo S3's geometry is more relax than the rest in your list. Madone is also not very aggressive. So select these if you tend to ride with a lot of spacers.
Cannondale SystemSix size 51 and 54 have uncharacteristicly long front center wheel base for its size. In fact, size 54's wheelbase is longer than size 56. If you happen to be in size 51 or 54, and you set cleat quite rearward toward midfoot, use low or no offset seatpost and generally sit toward front of the bike, then this front wheelbase lengthening can be a nice benefit.

Spacemedic
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:14 am

by Spacemedic

Look at Vision 5D Merton acr bars or FSA acr bars and you can fully hide all your cables if it doesn’t come stock.

alanyu
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:10 pm

by alanyu

Spacemedic wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:51 pm
Look at Vision 5D Merton acr bars or FSA acr bars and you can fully hide all your cables if it doesn’t come stock.
ACR doesn't mean you can hide cables on any bike. It requires the frame design to be compatible with its standard.

Spacemedic
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:14 am

by Spacemedic

alanyu wrote:
Spacemedic wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:51 pm
Look at Vision 5D Merton acr bars or FSA acr bars and you can fully hide all your cables if it doesn’t come stock.
ACR doesn't mean you can hide cables on any bike. It requires the frame design to be compatible with its standard.
Hmmm... the video for the Vision bars seem to suggest otherwise. The system includes a proprietary expander plug and headset.

Spacemedic
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:14 am

by Spacemedic

Spacemedic wrote:
alanyu wrote:
Spacemedic wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:51 pm
Look at Vision 5D Merton acr bars or FSA acr bars and you can fully hide all your cables if it doesn’t come stock.
ACR doesn't mean you can hide cables on any bike. It requires the frame design to be compatible with its standard.
Hmmm... the video for the Vision bars seem to suggest otherwise. The system includes a proprietary expander plug and headset.
For disc brakes of course

Spacemedic
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:14 am

by Spacemedic

Spacemedic wrote:
Spacemedic wrote:
alanyu wrote:
Spacemedic wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:51 pm
Look at Vision 5D Merton acr bars or FSA acr bars and you can fully hide all your cables if it doesn’t come stock.
ACR doesn't mean you can hide cables on any bike. It requires the frame design to be compatible with its standard.
Hmmm... the video for the Vision bars seem to suggest otherwise. The system includes a proprietary expander plug and headset.
For disc brakes of course
https://bikerumor.com/2018/12/09/fsa-in ... el-debuts/

Hexsense
Posts: 1070
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Spacemedic wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:11 pm
Spacemedic wrote:
Spacemedic wrote:
alanyu wrote:
ACR doesn't mean you can hide cables on any bike. It requires the frame design to be compatible with its standard.
Hmmm... the video for the Vision bars seem to suggest otherwise. The system includes a proprietary expander plug and headset.
For disc brakes of course
https://bikerumor.com/2018/12/09/fsa-in ... el-debuts/
Two glaring requirements:
1.) Top headset bearing must be 52mm (can't be 42mm, as there simply isn't enough space for the cable to go through). That is a common size for lower bearing. But common size for top bearing is 42mm. So the frame must be built with ACR in mind (or maybe it is already used 52mm top bearing because the bike used 1 1/4 steerer tube (OD2) instead of the common 1 1/8 size).
2.) There must be a way for front brake hose to go from inside the headtube into the fork. Most forks only have a hole on the outside.

User avatar
Noctiluxx
Posts: 916
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

At your weight, an extra 100-150 grams of frame weight won't matter at all. The Madone, while slightly heavier than an average aero bike, is by far the most comfortable and exceptional at holding speed.
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
2019 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Chameleon Blue)
2019 Cervelo R5 Disk (Team Sunweb)
2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 0

stevec1975
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:37 pm
Location: London

by stevec1975

I rate the Cervelo S3, mine comes out at 7.7KG, but could go lighter with judicious component choice

M4lukz
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:41 am

by M4lukz

The new Addict RC? (fully integrated)
Focus Izalco Max 9.x? (pretty much fully integrated)

these are some bikes that cross my mind

guadzilla
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:55 pm

by guadzilla

Venge. Mine is a hair under 8kg with Roval CLX50 wheels and Ultegra Di2. Am going for a lighter saddle, different tubes and Dura Ace Di2, and should get it to around 7.5kg.

Love the bike - fast and accelerates really well, too.

Karvalo
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Spacemedic wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:02 pm
alanyu wrote:
Spacemedic wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:51 pm
Look at Vision 5D Merton acr bars or FSA acr bars and you can fully hide all your cables if it doesn’t come stock.
ACR doesn't mean you can hide cables on any bike. It requires the frame design to be compatible with its standard.
Hmmm... the video for the Vision bars seem to suggest otherwise. The system includes a proprietary expander plug and headset.
Right, but the frame still needs to be designed to accept that headset. From your link - "The beauty of the design is that it still works with a standard tapered steerer with 1-1/8″ upper diameter, but will require a larger upper headset bearing OD."

You can't just drop an ACR upper bearing into any old frame, the frame has to have been designed for ACR or it will not fit.

Spacemedic
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:14 am

by Spacemedic

Karvalo wrote:
Spacemedic wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:02 pm
alanyu wrote:
Spacemedic wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:51 pm
Look at Vision 5D Merton acr bars or FSA acr bars and you can fully hide all your cables if it doesn’t come stock.
ACR doesn't mean you can hide cables on any bike. It requires the frame design to be compatible with its standard.
Hmmm... the video for the Vision bars seem to suggest otherwise. The system includes a proprietary expander plug and headset.
Right, but the frame still needs to be designed to accept that headset. From your link - "The beauty of the design is that it still works with a standard tapered steerer with 1-1/8″ upper diameter, but will require a larger upper headset bearing OD."

You can't just drop an ACR upper bearing into any old frame, the frame has to have been designed for ACR or it will not fit.
I see. Thanks for the clarification. I just assumed since the Bianchi XR4 is an older bike, it would work.

Karvalo
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Spacemedic wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:58 am
I see. Thanks for the clarification. I just assumed since the Bianchi XR4 is an older bike, it would work.
The XR4 rim is an older bike, and doesn't work with ACR. The XR4 disc is relatively new still, and does.

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