Expected crank compatibility if Shimano goes 12 speed

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
DaveS
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Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm

by DaveS

gorkypl wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:30 am
guadzilla wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:42 am
Wait - do Campy 12 cassettes fit 11-speed freehubs? I used to use Centaur 10-speed on one bike and use Shimano/SRAM cassettes interchangeably - if i can fit a 12-speed Campy cassette onto a 11-speed Shimano freehub, then i'd be seriously interested in getting in on some EPS action.
Campagnolo 12s cassettes fit *Campagnolo* 12s freehubs.
Said that, someone on this forum reported that Campy 12s works reasonably well with Sram 12s cassettes (and freehubs).
Campy 12 cassettes fit all campy hubs, since the 9 speed models made in 1997. Other campy compatible freehub brands might not work, if they didn't copy all of the dimensions. Campy hubs can be converted to shimano or XDR freehubs.

guadzilla
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:55 pm

by guadzilla

gorkypl wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:30 am
Campagnolo 12s cassettes fit *Campagnolo* 12s freehubs.
Said that, someone on this forum reported that Campy 12s works reasonably well with Sram 12s cassettes (and freehubs).
Ah ok, as expected. I misunderstood the earlier statement. Thanks for the clarification.

by Weenie


Stefano
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by Stefano

A replacement freehub for most wheels is $50, when compared to a $3500 groupset it pales in comparison :)

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Shiamno are more than likely to offer 50/34, 48/32 or 46/30t or similar Chainsets and 10t start cassettes. The chainring sizes may be different but it has to be similar to what Sram have offered with axs as that makes sense.

10t sprockets will get mullered though.

I like traditional gearing (53/39) though or 1x.

Companies like carbon ti will offer 12 speed rings to fit 11 speed Chainsets.

Maddie
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Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:44 am

by Maddie

I don't get it, why would Shimano go the Sram way i.e. smaller chainsets and 10t sprocket? It does not make sense. I think they much rather include the important 16t sprocket in 11-28 and 11-30 casettes.

FactoryMatt
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Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:35 am

by FactoryMatt

NickJHP wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:41 am
FactoryMatt wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:23 pm
11-speed chainrings absolutely will not work, unless you fiddle with the quicklink, which isn't worth it IMO.
I doubt this is true. I've had no problem at all using 11-speed chains/cassettes/derailleurs with cranks from 9-speed days, and the width difference of 1.1-1.3mm between 9- and 11-speed chains of is a lot more than the ~0.25mm difference in width between 11- and 12-speed. I also have SRAM Eagle 12-speed chain/cassette/derailleur installed on a bike using a RaceFace narrow-wide chainring that dates from before the days of 12-speed, and that works fine as well.
Xtr-12 quicklinks are too narrow to fit on anything but shimano 12-speed spec chainrungs. Dura ace will almost certainly use same form factor.

You CAN use an XO-12 quicklink, but its not ideal.

spartan
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am

by spartan

shimano dura ace has always been designed for pro racers. their will be full size chainsets multiple cassettes including 11-28 12 speed.
Current Rides:

2018 Madone SLR DISC DI2 9XXX
2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL 0 DI2 9150

FactoryMatt
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by FactoryMatt

10t cogs are a waste of a cog.

I laugh at these ppl running $600 Ceramic speed OSPW pulleys to avoid link articulation but then slap on 48/10 SRAM gearing
Last edited by FactoryMatt on Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

guadzilla
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:55 pm

by guadzilla

What about shifters? I assume Dura Ace shifters would continue to work with 12 speed too, given that they are merely sending actuation signals.

If so, i might be tempted to get a pair of shifters for now, and use my 10 speed 6770 FD/RD for the time being, swapping them out whenever the new groupset is released. That should also work, correct? I tried looking up the eTube compatibility chart but cant tell for sure.

rollinslow
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by rollinslow

FactoryMatt wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:58 pm
10t cogs are a waste of a cog.

I laugh at these ppl running $600 Ceramic speed OSPW pulleys to avoid link articulation and but then slap on 48/10 SRAM gearing
So funny to see someone riding this setup lol.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

16t sprocket in a 12 speed cassette may sell the group set to a few but the mass market simply does not care.

The mass market would like a 10t sprocket and smaller rings. Teams are using Sram axs 12 speed. The mass market does not race. The mass market buys dura ace.

Microspline is for 12 speed with a 10t sprocket. No point in rolling out microspline if not to make use of the pointless 10t sprocket. It is pointless and it is for mtb yet the mass market buys it.

Shimano are not market innovators.

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

I currently have the Ultegra 11-32 cassette and I don't even have the 15t sprocket. But if I have to choose between a 15t cog on a 11-32 vs. a 10t cog on a 10-32 I'll choose the 10t cog. With the 10t cog I can use smaller chainrings (for sure Shimano will offer smaller chainrings if they also bring out the 10t cog) for a very wide range gearing when on the big ring. With a 10-32 12-speed cassette and a 46t big ring, one can ride the big ring fro 10mph to 35mph. This will allow me to keep it on the big ring on all terrain except on extended and steep climbs. I really do hope Shimano will bring out the 10t cog and smaller chainrings.

FactoryMatt
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by FactoryMatt

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:19 am
I currently have the Ultegra 11-32 cassette and I don't even have the 15t sprocket. But if I have to choose between a 15t cog on a 11-32 vs. a 10t cog on a 10-32 I'll choose the 10t cog. With the 10t cog I can use smaller chainrings (for sure Shimano will offer smaller chainrings if they also bring out the 10t cog) for a very wide range gearing when on the big ring. With a 10-32 12-speed cassette and a 46t big ring, one can ride the big ring fro 10mph to 35mph. This will allow me to keep it on the big ring on all terrain except on extended and steep climbs. I really do hope Shimano will bring out the 10t cog and smaller chainrings.
i get what you're saying. i run a 2X w/ a 42T big ring on my cross bike just because the speed range (at my preferred 100 rpm+) is such that i rarely use the small end of the cassette, and this allows me to stay in the big ring more often.

that said, on a road bike, the only time i'm not in the big ring is when i'm climbing. for me at least, and again keep in mind i'm PRONE to running shortish gears, the speeds are simply high enough on the road to run at least a 50T up front.

there's nothing wrong with a 48T big ring, but the fact they're pushing it at the high end w/ RED is very odd to me. it'd be like offering an 11-34 or 11-36 DURA ACE cassette. shimano just doesn't do it. you can say "well yea, but SRAM does offer a 50T big ring in RED AXS", but that's their biggest. that's their 53 (or 55 even!).

DaveS
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by DaveS

Cassettes with a 10T cog should be accompanied with smaller chain rings, since a 50/10 is the same as a 55/11. I imagine that a few sprinters may use a 55/11, but no one else. That's why SRAM offers a 46/33 setup. A 46/10 is right in between a 53/11 and 53/12 ratio. I find it interesting that SRAM chose to limit the chain ring difference to 13T and gave up range in the process. Probably because their FDs never seem to work well. The Campy 12 speed FDs shift great with a 16T difference. I use the new 48/32 to get a top gear that's the same as a 53/12, with the 11-34 cassette. It's a straight block up to the 17.

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