Expected crank compatibility if Shimano goes 12 speed

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
guadzilla
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:55 pm

by guadzilla

I am planning to put Dura Ace Di2 on my Venge Pro and use the Ultegra Di2 i pull off it to build iup a R5. The plan is to add 4iii dual-sided power to the Ultegra 8000 cranks. If Shimano does indeed go 12 speed, i may upgrade both the Venge Pro and the R5 to 12-speed at some point, but would like to continue using the power meter.

So what is the likelihood that a current generation 8000-series crankset will not work with the groupset? I know there is a lot of guesswork involved and I am not looking for a definitive answer obviously, but is there any technical or other reason that makes you think one way or the other?

[Pedal based power isnt a preferred option. I use Speedplay on all my bikes and have my shoes set up with cleat wedges to fix some alignment issues, and it is too much of a bother to switch things around]

by Weenie


DaveS
Posts: 2803
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm

by DaveS

Put a shimano xt or xtr 12 speed chain on and try it briefly. The road version shouldn't be that much different.

I very briefly put the narrowest 12 speed chain, the sram axs on a Campy 11 bike. The chainrings seemed to work ok.

RECAR77
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:12 am

by RECAR77

official compatibility? definitely not

effective compatibility? likely

shimano did change the chainring spacing slightly between the 9000 and r9100 generation (inner ring 0,5mm further inward) and they claim an incompatibility between old FD and new cranksets. on most frames however a combination like this still works. it's just shimano covering their butt for the 5% where it doesn't work. shimano won't move away from HT2 so getting a left side PM only is a safe bet. the new chain will also still be 11/128" internal width and be very similar to existing 12s chains which work fine on 11s chainrings.

FactoryMatt
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:35 am

by FactoryMatt

11-speed chainrings absolutely will not work, unless you fiddle with the quicklink, which isn't worth it IMO.

i would say you want a platform that you know wolftooth and/or absoluteblack will be making chainrings for. both of their 12spd XTR chainrings work great with XTR-12. if i were you, i'd probably e-mail wolftooth and ask for their recommendation, based on what their current plans are :)

DaveS
Posts: 2803
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm

by DaveS

Why would you say the 11 speed chainrings won't work? What's the quick link got to do with anything? There are several 12 speed chains that use quick links already. I've got three - KMC, SRAM Eagle and SRAM AXS. The Shimano 12 chain includes a quick link.

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/shim ... nk-set?s=a

ooo
Posts: 894
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=159526&p=1533512#p1532829
marcelflash wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:22 pm
I rode the 12 speed XTR chain on the 11 speed 11-30 9100 cassette all summer since February and had no problems at all. Still silend and crisp shifting in competition, mountains and touring. Only the Easton EC90 SL chainrings are too slow shifting from big to smal ring under full load. Had the 12 speed pulleys from the XTR too and adjusted the B tension as high as possible almost touching the 30t for better shifting on the spaller sprockets.
'

Stefano
Posts: 258
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:24 am
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan

by Stefano

Don't forget, the rumor is that shimano is going to 10T small cogs on their new microspline. That means even a compact 50/34 will be quite a big top gear. (And your fancy new 12s becomes effectively an expensive 11s with an unused bottom cog). Food for thought.

guadzilla
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:55 pm

by guadzilla

I guess the sensible thing would to be go SRAM Red AXS for the Venge (that way, i can put the current Ultegra Di2 on the R5 and wont be buying anything that is going to get outdated soon). I have always ridden SRAM, so that is plus, but I dont like that closed eco-system, though. Decisions, decisions...

For those of you planning new builds- what are you guys doing? Waiting or biting the bullet?

Stefano
Posts: 258
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:24 am
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan

by Stefano

Buying Campagnolo 12s- it's slick, mechanical and EPS work great, and the cassette uses conventional sizes which is wonderful.

moock
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:53 pm

by moock

Stefano wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:00 am
Don't forget, the rumor is that shimano is going to 10T small cogs
this will never happen :!:

NickJHP
Posts: 363
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:22 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

by NickJHP

FactoryMatt wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:23 pm
11-speed chainrings absolutely will not work, unless you fiddle with the quicklink, which isn't worth it IMO.
I doubt this is true. I've had no problem at all using 11-speed chains/cassettes/derailleurs with cranks from 9-speed days, and the width difference of 1.1-1.3mm between 9- and 11-speed chains of is a lot more than the ~0.25mm difference in width between 11- and 12-speed. I also have SRAM Eagle 12-speed chain/cassette/derailleur installed on a bike using a RaceFace narrow-wide chainring that dates from before the days of 12-speed, and that works fine as well.

eric01
Posts: 666
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:06 am

by eric01

it'll probably work, but won't be as crisp as a full blown 12 speed setup. buy what's going to make you happy. whenever the new group is released, it won't automatically turn your existing 11 speed setup into crap. Try riding a dura ace 9000 group back to back againt a 9100 group. There are differences yes but a lot of us mortals would be hard pressed to tell the difference blind folded.
Specialized Tarmac Sworks SL6, Moots Compact, Carl Strong Titanium

guadzilla
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:55 pm

by guadzilla

Stefano wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:41 am
Buying Campagnolo 12s- it's slick, mechanical and EPS work great, and the cassette uses conventional sizes which is wonderful.
Wait - do Campy 12 cassettes fit 11-speed freehubs? I used to use Centaur 10-speed on one bike and use Shimano/SRAM cassettes interchangeably - if i can fit a 12-speed Campy cassette onto a 11-speed Shimano freehub, then i'd be seriously interested in getting in on some EPS action.

gorkypl
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:31 am
Location: Poland

by gorkypl

guadzilla wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:42 am
Wait - do Campy 12 cassettes fit 11-speed freehubs? I used to use Centaur 10-speed on one bike and use Shimano/SRAM cassettes interchangeably - if i can fit a 12-speed Campy cassette onto a 11-speed Shimano freehub, then i'd be seriously interested in getting in on some EPS action.
Campagnolo 12s cassettes fit *Campagnolo* 12s freehubs.
Said that, someone on this forum reported that Campy 12s works reasonably well with Sram 12s cassettes (and freehubs).

by Weenie


robertbb
Posts: 1349
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Stefano wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:00 am
Don't forget, the rumor is that shimano is going to 10T small cogs on their new microspline. That means even a compact 50/34 will be quite a big top gear. (And your fancy new 12s becomes effectively an expensive 11s with an unused bottom cog). Food for thought.
Just like Campy :lol:

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