Help me decide - new road bike

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Ninetails
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:44 pm

by Ninetails

I’m upgrading my road bike for the first time in 7 years and I'm after a bike that does it all, feels stable and in control, climbs and descends well and is fast on the flats. Something that just feels fun to ride and has all day comfort for long rides.

Here are some of the contenders with local prices I can buy them for:

Focus izalco max 9.8 Red ETAP @ $8000

Specialised s-works tarmac pro ETAP @ $9500

Canyon Ultimate CF SLX Disc 8.0 ETAP @ $8900

Giant TCR advanced SL 1 ETAP @ $6500

All are equipped with what seem to be comparable aero carbon rims and SRAM force ETAP axs groupsets (The Focus has SRAM Red ETAP 11spd). The canyon and the giant have the added bonus of being equipped with SRAM quarq power meters as standard. Obviously the giant is the most heavily discounted and represents the best value, but am I sacrificing anything compared to the others?

What are your thoughts?

by Weenie


robertbb
Posts: 1303
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

If anything the Giant is the best quality frame despite being the cheapest. Nothing wrong with the others per-se, but Giant's SL level carbon is a cut above the rest. Proprietary resin and the most cutting edge construction too.

The other thing with Giant is the lifetime warranty on the frame. Not sure if any of the others on the list offer that.

hannawald
Posts: 641
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by hannawald

Some of your favourites are disc brake bikes, some not..i would say it is quite a decision point..
I would choose none of them:) Tarmac is expensive not being their top of the line frame (s works uses better carbon than pro in case of Tarmac) and due to update very soon. Ultimate is also due to update and probably TCR as well, there are threads about that. So if you plan new bike for this money for another 7 years i would choose a new model..for example new Cannondale hi mod Super Six 2020 (in team colours it is quite nice) or new Scott Addict. These two will stay the same for couple of years..

Ninetails
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:44 pm

by Ninetails


hannawald wrote:Some of your favourites are disc brake bikes, some not..i would say it is quite a decision point..
I would choose none of them:) Tarmac is expensive not being their top of the line frame (s works uses better carbon than pro in case of Tarmac) and due to update very soon. Ultimate is also due to update and probably TCR as well, there are threads about that. So if you plan new bike for this money for another 7 years i would choose a new model..for example new Cannondale hi mod Super Six 2020 (in team colours it is quite nice) or new Scott Addict. These two will stay the same for couple of years..
All of these models are the disc brake versions. I've definitely considered the fact that the giant and the canyons will probably be updated soon, it's one of the factors making it hard to decide. Unfortunately the new 2020 s-works tarmac is far too expensive at $16000, and the dealers in Australia no longer have the cheaper 2019 model available. I'll take a look at the Cannondale as well

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hannawald
Posts: 641
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by hannawald

Cannondale and Scott have threads here on ww, you can see some builds with these bikes. Both can be converted into pretty light bikes considering semi aero disc brake bikes, they are new models with hidden cables...

jasonh
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 6:55 pm

by jasonh

I would recommend a Tarmac pro with Force axs etap which appears to be $4,300US less expensive than the Sworks version, add an ubermegalight custom built ENVE wheels with Berd spokes, and a power meter
Regular Tarmac frames (non S-works) are incredible. They have been since their 2009 SL2 version. If you demo an sworks and a Tarmac Pro, back to back, you’ll understand just how good they actually are.

DeLuz
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:30 am

by DeLuz

Cannondale EVO

rollinslow
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:25 am

by rollinslow

Ninetails wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:57 am
hannawald wrote:Some of your favourites are disc brake bikes, some not..i would say it is quite a decision point..
I would choose none of them:) Tarmac is expensive not being their top of the line frame (s works uses better carbon than pro in case of Tarmac) and due to update very soon. Ultimate is also due to update and probably TCR as well, there are threads about that. So if you plan new bike for this money for another 7 years i would choose a new model..for example new Cannondale hi mod Super Six 2020 (in team colours it is quite nice) or new Scott Addict. These two will stay the same for couple of years..
All of these models are the disc brake versions. I've definitely considered the fact that the giant and the canyons will probably be updated soon, it's one of the factors making it hard to decide. Unfortunately the new 2020 s-works tarmac is far too expensive at $16000, and the dealers in Australia no longer have the cheaper 2019 model available. I'll take a look at the Cannondale as well

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Whoa, 16k for an s works tarmac???!!!! Out here in the US you can get that frame for 2500$ or around there directly from Specialized. Is it the terrible exchange rate to USD currently? I would get a Baum for that price range.

Ninetails
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:44 pm

by Ninetails

rollinslow wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:08 pm
Ninetails wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:57 am
hannawald wrote:Some of your favourites are disc brake bikes, some not..i would say it is quite a decision point..
I would choose none of them:) Tarmac is expensive not being their top of the line frame (s works uses better carbon than pro in case of Tarmac) and due to update very soon. Ultimate is also due to update and probably TCR as well, there are threads about that. So if you plan new bike for this money for another 7 years i would choose a new model..for example new Cannondale hi mod Super Six 2020 (in team colours it is quite nice) or new Scott Addict. These two will stay the same for couple of years..
All of these models are the disc brake versions. I've definitely considered the fact that the giant and the canyons will probably be updated soon, it's one of the factors making it hard to decide. Unfortunately the new 2020 s-works tarmac is far too expensive at $16000, and the dealers in Australia no longer have the cheaper 2019 model available. I'll take a look at the Cannondale as well

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Whoa, 16k for an s works tarmac???!!!! Out here in the US you can get that frame for 2500$ or around there directly from Specialized. Is it the terrible exchange rate to USD currently? I would get a Baum for that price range.
Yep that's what specialized sell them for this year.. that's the sram red axs model which is $11000 usd or $16000 aud. The previous 2019 model with dura ace di2 sold for $13000

Ninetails
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:44 pm

by Ninetails

One thing I can't get my head around, is why their is such a huge difference in the stated weight between the cannondale supersix evo hi-mod (7.3kg) and the sworks tarmac (6.58kg), both specced with Dura Ace di2.
Other than weight, has anyone ridden both and have any thoughts on ride quality and handling or have any comments on what differentiates them other than weight? Also I'm finding very little about the knot wheels, whereas the specialized CLX50 with ceramicspeed bearings sound like they're pretty special.

AJS914
Posts: 3755
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

rollinslow wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:08 pm
Whoa, 16k for an s works tarmac???!!!! Out here in the US you can get that frame for 2500$ or around there directly from Specialized.

I haven't seen anything near that price for an S-Works frame unless you are willing to take last years rim brake acid pink color or a size 44.

That said, there are a few deals on ebay. I'd build up my own bike before paying Specialized $10K+.

Hexsense
Posts: 1061
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Ninetails wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:35 am
One thing I can't get my head around, is why their is such a huge difference in the stated weight between the cannondale supersix evo hi-mod (7.3kg) and the sworks tarmac (6.58kg), both specced with Dura Ace di2.
I can't help with the real world review, but the weight difference between frameset are really low.
Size 56: Frame, Fork, Seatpost
Cannondale: 866+389+162.4 =1417g
Specialized: 800+338+206=1344g
about 70g difference.

The rest of the porker on SS Evo are:
Stem more than 200+g vs 130g
Bar also about 100g heavier than S-works bar.
Crank has unactivated Power2max which is not light vs S-works power crank which is very light.
S-works Turbo cotton tire are pretty light vs Vittoria tires on Cannondale.
CLX50 weight less than Cannondale Knot wheels. But Knot is wider, so it can be more aero with wider tires.

Cannondale test their bike (with aero shaped bar) to be a bit faster than Tarmac SL6 (round bar). And the cable look nicer integrated, that's the main selling point of it against S-works SL6. I'd pick Cannondale as frameset and build it up with my choice of parts. But for complete build, S-works is superior as the Cannondale component choice is questionable IMO.

by Weenie


User avatar
Stendhal
Posts: 250
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:43 am
Location: Silicon Valley

by Stendhal

Hexsense wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:45 am
Ninetails wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:35 am
One thing I can't get my head around, is why their is such a huge difference in the stated weight between the cannondale supersix evo hi-mod (7.3kg) and the sworks tarmac (6.58kg), both specced with Dura Ace di2.
I can't help with the real world review, but the weight difference between frameset are really low.
Size 56: Frame, Fork, Seatpost
Cannondale: 866+389+162.4 =1417g
Specialized: 800+338+206=1344g
about 70g difference.

The rest of the porker on SS Evo are:
Stem more than 200+g vs 130g
Bar also about 100g heavier than S-works bar.
Crank has unactivated Power2max which is not light vs S-works power crank which is very light.
S-works Turbo cotton tire are pretty light vs Vittoria tires on Cannondale.
CLX50 weight less than Cannondale Knot wheels. But Knot is wider, so it can be more aero with wider tires.

Cannondale test their bike (with aero shaped bar) to be a bit faster than Tarmac SL6 (round bar). And the cable look nicer integrated, that's the main selling point of it against S-works SL6. I'd pick Cannondale as frameset and build it up with my choice of parts. But for complete build, S-works is superior as the Cannondale component choice is questionable IMO.
This type of across the board analytical weight comparison is very helpful, excellent job!

Based on a lot of user data (I did not weight my own version), the SWorks seatpost is about 30g lighter than your number though, in the 170s range. The stock SWorks, and the model I had built up, save much weight in the excellent SWorks Power saddle, which is 143g spec and about 145g real (technically I have the similar Power Arc). The SWorks regular frame (not the superlight) is heavier than 800g on average (I published the user reported data on this site), so overall your numbers for frame plus fork plus post are about right. If you want a lighter rather than a more aero bike, use narrower brake tracks on the wheels. I have the CLX 32 rather than the 50s; I don't know if Cannondale offers a narrower KNOT.
Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL6 (6.39 kg), Cervelo Aspero (7.87)
Retired: LOW// mki, Pinarello Dogma F10 \ F8, Lapierre Pulsium, TIME Fluidity, Wilier Cento1 SR, Ridley Noah, Cyfac Cadence, Cervelo S2, R3, R5, Felt Z25, Klein Quantum, Cannondale 2.0

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