What BB for Cervelo R5 disk?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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IrrelevantD
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Location: Near DFW Airport

by IrrelevantD

jmfreeman535 wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:20 am
Noctiluxx wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:09 am
is It worth ordering the ceramic bearing version of Wheels Manufacturing BB for the R5 disk?
Ceramic bearings simply are not worth it, when it comes to bikes. Go with the Angular Contact.

On a side note...I had my first ride on my R5 today, and the BB was slicky smooth and creak free, as expected.
I second this. Ceramic bearings were designed for applications where you're dealing with hundreds to thousands of RPMs. Just not going to see a benefit at 80~120RPM. Better things to spend that money on.
* There is a 70% chance that what you have just read has a peppering of cynicism or sarcasm and generally should not be taken seriously.
I'll leave it up to you to figure out the other 30%. If you are in any way offended, that's on you.

ryanw
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by ryanw

C-Bear ceramic have been perfect on my Cervelos after trying many different manufacturers.
'16 Cervelo S5 - 6,650g RIP
'17 Focus Mares Force 1 - 7,170g
'19 Cervelo S5 Disc - 7,460g

IG: RhinosWorkshop - Check it out for all my custom builds :thumbup:

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Noctiluxx
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Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

jmfreeman535 wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:20 am
Noctiluxx wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:09 am
is It worth ordering the ceramic bearing version of Wheels Manufacturing BB for the R5 disk?
Ceramic bearings simply are not worth it, when it comes to bikes. Go with the Angular Contact.

On a side note...I had my first ride on my R5 today, and the BB was slicky smooth and creak free, as expected.
Why the angular contact?
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
2019 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Chameleon Blue)
2019 Cervelo R5 Disk (Team Sunweb)
2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 0

jmfreeman535
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:12 pm

by jmfreeman535

Noctiluxx wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:45 pm
jmfreeman535 wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:20 am
Noctiluxx wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:09 am
is It worth ordering the ceramic bearing version of Wheels Manufacturing BB for the R5 disk?
Ceramic bearings simply are not worth it, when it comes to bikes. Go with the Angular Contact.

On a side note...I had my first ride on my R5 today, and the BB was slicky smooth and creak free, as expected.
Why the angular contact?
Angular contact bearings are designed to take both radial and axial loads, while radial ("normal") bearings are designed only for raidal loads. You're not always pedalling in a smooth/even raidal motion, so the added axial loads can cause added friction/stress/wear to radial bearings.

Just be sure to add extra preload (3-5Nm, instead of the normal 1-2Nm) when installing the crank.

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IrrelevantD
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Location: Near DFW Airport

by IrrelevantD

Noctiluxx wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:45 pm
jmfreeman535 wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:20 am
Noctiluxx wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:09 am
is It worth ordering the ceramic bearing version of Wheels Manufacturing BB for the R5 disk?
Ceramic bearings simply are not worth it, when it comes to bikes. Go with the Angular Contact.

On a side note...I had my first ride on my R5 today, and the BB was slicky smooth and creak free, as expected.
Why the angular contact?
If properly setup, they tend to last longer. On AC bearings all of the balls are in constant contact with the race due to the preload. It's kind of like pressing the balls between two cones, actually, they're not too far off from a hybrid between cartarage and cup and cone bearings. Normal cartarage bearings you'll get only a few balls that are in full contact and under load. This will typically be the bottom of the outer race and can lead to uneaven wear.

How much of a problem is this in actuality? That's going to depend on a lot of things that are going to be hard to quantify. If you're a light rider than doesn't push a lot of power, obviously any bearings are going to last longer than a 100kg guy that easily cranks out +1kw sprints. For me, (@90~100kg) I typically expect to replace BB bearings every 20~30,000km (about 2 years).
* There is a 70% chance that what you have just read has a peppering of cynicism or sarcasm and generally should not be taken seriously.
I'll leave it up to you to figure out the other 30%. If you are in any way offended, that's on you.

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Noctiluxx
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Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

IrrelevantD wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:10 pm
Noctiluxx wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:45 pm
jmfreeman535 wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:20 am
Noctiluxx wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:09 am
is It worth ordering the ceramic bearing version of Wheels Manufacturing BB for the R5 disk?
Ceramic bearings simply are not worth it, when it comes to bikes. Go with the Angular Contact.

On a side note...I had my first ride on my R5 today, and the BB was slicky smooth and creak free, as expected.
Why the angular contact?
If properly setup, they tend to last longer. On AC bearings all of the balls are in constant contact with the race due to the preload. It's kind of like pressing the balls between two cones, actually, they're not too far off from a hybrid between cartarage and cup and cone bearings. Normal cartarage bearings you'll get only a few balls that are in full contact and under load. This will typically be the bottom of the outer race and can lead to uneaven wear.

How much of a problem is this in actuality? That's going to depend on a lot of things that are going to be hard to quantify. If you're a light rider than doesn't push a lot of power, obviously any bearings are going to last longer than a 100kg guy that easily cranks out +1kw sprints. For me, (@90~100kg) I typically expect to replace BB bearings every 20~30,000km (about 2 years).
Any performance loss from the angular contact bottom bracket?
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
2019 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Chameleon Blue)
2019 Cervelo R5 Disk (Team Sunweb)
2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 0

MaxPower
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:30 pm

by MaxPower

Noctiluxx wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:15 pm
IrrelevantD wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:10 pm
Noctiluxx wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:45 pm
jmfreeman535 wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:20 am


Ceramic bearings simply are not worth it, when it comes to bikes. Go with the Angular Contact.

On a side note...I had my first ride on my R5 today, and the BB was slicky smooth and creak free, as expected.
Why the angular contact?
If properly setup, they tend to last longer. On AC bearings all of the balls are in constant contact with the race due to the preload. It's kind of like pressing the balls between two cones, actually, they're not too far off from a hybrid between cartarage and cup and cone bearings. Normal cartarage bearings you'll get only a few balls that are in full contact and under load. This will typically be the bottom of the outer race and can lead to uneaven wear.

How much of a problem is this in actuality? That's going to depend on a lot of things that are going to be hard to quantify. If you're a light rider than doesn't push a lot of power, obviously any bearings are going to last longer than a 100kg guy that easily cranks out +1kw sprints. For me, (@90~100kg) I typically expect to replace BB bearings every 20~30,000km (about 2 years).
Any performance loss from the angular contact bottom bracket?
More drag than radial bearings, caused by the additional friction of ball engagement/preload.

One reason why as far as i am aware no ceramic bearings for cycling are available as AC - to much drag per design = bad for marketing.
Not much sales in ceramic hybrid bearings with higher drag than cheap radial steel bearings

MaxPower
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:30 pm

by MaxPower

... But can you feel it on the bike, having tried AC, ok quality radial and high quality radial (no ceramic hybrids though) its more in your head - but i'm no pro or make my living on a bike.

Have read somewhere some time ago that the seals on AC bearings because of the race design are less tight. This might affect bearing life.

Approx 80% (i think it was) of bearing drag is the grease and seal anyway (radial bearings).

In the end quality steel vs ceramic, radial vs AC is splitting hairs in terms of watts anyway.
Just like the ospw debate...

jlok
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Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

XD-15? CULT? USB? I think they are also angular designs.
Litespeed T1sl Disc / BMC TM02 < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

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IrrelevantD
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Location: Near DFW Airport

by IrrelevantD

Noctiluxx wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:15 pm
Any performance loss from the angular contact bottom bracket?
As what others have said, probably a little, but we're probably talking about a hadful of watts between ABEC-3, AC and ABEC-5 bearings. I seriously doubt I'd be able to tell the difference.

I rarely do anything more than ~30min at a time over about 230W and I don't race. I DO ride between 11,000 and 13,000KM a year, so I'm more concerned about longevity. That being said, once you have the shell, the actual bearings are pretty cheap. The thread together PF30 shell my Aspero came with uses the same 6806 bearings as BB30 (for a 30mm spindle). Those range anywhere from $24 a pair of ABEC-3 up to $40ea for Ceramic Hybrid directly from Wheels. Meanwhile, the shell with the same Zero ceramic bearings cost $180. It'd actually be cheaper to by a BB with ABEC-3 bearings and replace them with ceramic than to buy the ceramic shell.

That being said, I found this interesting read from Bike Radar from 2013.
* There is a 70% chance that what you have just read has a peppering of cynicism or sarcasm and generally should not be taken seriously.
I'll leave it up to you to figure out the other 30%. If you are in any way offended, that's on you.

HShimada
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:25 am

by HShimada

Hambini! I've used them on my Cervelos of past with great pleasure and with 0 issues. They are the stiffest BB's you'll ever find. 0 creaks. Suuuuper smooth.
Used them both on R5 and S5

cyclodelic
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:14 pm

by cyclodelic

I second that... I use a hambini too on a bb30 frame... No creaks much stiffer BB than stock and silky smooth action. Not cheep, not so light... but by far the best

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Ypuh
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:20 pm
Location: Leerdam, Netherlands

by Ypuh

HShimada wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:53 am
Hambini! I've used them on my Cervelos of past with great pleasure and with 0 issues. They are the stiffest BB's you'll ever find. 0 creaks. Suuuuper smooth.
Used them both on R5 and S5
One of my first posts here, but I would definitely recommend Hambini's BB as well. An aluminium cup thread together bottombracket like the BBB that came with my S3 only goes so far to compensate misalignments. One of my bearings was already gritty within <2.000km. When I replaced it (with the idea to only do it once) with a Hambini, I figured out why; my BB shell is more oval than the Indy500.

Once fitted, the Hambini BB runs extremely smooth. It even feels different/more direct, something that I did not expect (thought of a BB is something that just works or doesn't).

Also the customerservice Hambini offers is fantastic and worth the (extra) outlay. Next bike I'll first look at Hambini's recommendations/options.

cyclodelic
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:14 pm

by cyclodelic

Important to note.... Not all bearings are created equal. I wouldn't waste anymore of my money on anything containing Enduro bearings.... From best to worst chose NTN, FAG or at the lowest level SKF.. I think hambini mostly uses NTN... If you want the masterclass on the engineering rationale for this check out his you tube channel.

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HShimada
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:25 am

by HShimada

cyclodelic wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:03 pm
Important to note.... Not all bearings are created equal. I wouldn't waste anymore of my money on anything containing Enduro bearings.... From best to worst chose NTN, FAG or at the lowest level SKF.. I think hambini mostly uses NTN... If you want the masterclass on the engineering rationale for this check out his you tube channel.

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Absolutely!
NTN's have been amazing for me.

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