What BB for Cervelo R5 disk?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Noctiluxx
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Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

I will receive my 2019 Cervelo R5 disk frameset this Friday and plan on building it with Dura Ace 9170 drivetrain with the 9100 crank. I've read Cervelo's have potential BB creaking issues and would like to reduce the chance by using a less problematic bottom bracket. Any suggestions?
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
2019 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Chameleon Blue)
2019 Cervelo R5 Disk (Team Sunweb)
2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 0

jmfreeman535
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:12 pm

by jmfreeman535

I used this on my R3, and it was flawless. I just installed one on my R5, while I haven't ridden it yet, I'm expecting it to perfrom just as well.
https://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-brackets/b ... black.html

A lot of the creaking issues were on the older model, and a quality, thread-together BB, properly installed, should be problem free on the current frames

ds240
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:43 am

by ds240

I agree with the wheels manufacturing BB recommendation. Have one on my cervelo and no issues. Went this direction after recommended from a Cervelo dealership.

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Noctiluxx
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Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

Good to know. Thanks for the info guys!
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
2019 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Chameleon Blue)
2019 Cervelo R5 Disk (Team Sunweb)
2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 0

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IrrelevantD
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Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:47 pm
Location: Near DFW Airport

by IrrelevantD

I'll add to the Wheels Mfg. love. I've used their thread together BBs in 3 different bikes and they are great.
My Aspero did come with a thread together BB, so it sounds like Cervelo might be taking steps to take care of the BB issues, at least on that frame. That being said, the bearings themselves disintegrate on me in the first few weeks. My shop replaced them with Enduro's in the same shell under warranty, which have been working great. (Wheels uses Enduro bearings as well).
* There is a 70% chance that what you have just read has a peppering of cynicism or sarcasm and generally should not be taken seriously.
I'll leave it up to you to figure out the other 30%. If you are in any way offended, that's on you.

mmeysarosh
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:38 pm

by mmeysarosh

The creaking issues that you may experience happens with nearly any manufacture of a modern press fit bottom bracket. Threaded bracket can experience similar issues depending on how the threads are bonded to the frame.

Most press fit frames use a form of a cup with retains the bearings made of a polymer that allows some lattitute to frame tollerance issues. If frame tolerance such as alignment, ovalized bottom braketsopenings, or radial dimensions somehwat out of spec can cause a good deal of the creaking issues. Most brands have an accetable limit of out of tollernces from the factories, but some might be a bit to liberal to keep frame rejections lower.

One solutions is screw togerther two piece brackets, which allow the two pieces of the shell align better and will actually add a slight bit of extra bottom bracket stiffness with a small weight gain. Another solution is the one piece systems by either BBInfinite or Hambini, with some frames have clearence issues with these. The one piece solutions add the highest level of BB stiffness enhacement with a small weight penalty and the alignment provided by them reall aid in bearing longevity as it supports the bearing well and keeps the loading controlled.

A simple answer could also be that nothing is wrong with the frame and the cup has simply worked its way off alignment. Once you install a one piece solution, you won't need to remove it and can replace the bearings as needed and you really don't want to be pushing one of those things in and out of the frame.

MaxPower
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:30 pm

by MaxPower

Just be aware of that wmf uses non-standard size bearings for shimano cranks - ID of 24mm.
Not a lot of manufacturers make these odd size bearings. Enduro is what wmf normally uses.

For me Enduro has been hit&miss.

You could potentially put standard size bearings in them (6805 i think it was, but not sure) and find delrin adapters to take the 1mm between bearing and axle. But wmf don't make them themselfs for such an application and you might have to resolve to hack/bodge it.

Even shimano themselfs have moved over du standard size bearings + adapters.

The wmf screw BB shell itself looks good and seems to have been just fine, but as i said, i needed to go angular contact bearing with a lot more preload to eliminate bearing clicking. Might have been unlucky, but the restricted manufacturer supply of 24x37x7 bearings just did that I'm about to try another BB solution

jlok
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Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

just order the bearings from wmf as well... they last very long after all so I don't understand the worry...
Litespeed T1sl Disc / BMC TM02 < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

antihero
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Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:17 pm

by antihero

I used wmf on my R5. No creaking at all. Selling my R5 now:(. Enjoy it. Lovely bike

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IrrelevantD
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Location: Near DFW Airport

by IrrelevantD

MaxPower wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:16 pm
The wmf screw BB shell itself looks good and seems to have been just fine, but as i said, i needed to go angular contact bearing with a lot more preload to eliminate bearing clicking. Might have been unlucky, but the restricted manufacturer supply of 24x37x7 bearings just did that I'm about to try another BB solution
That's hits on somethign that I think not may people are aware of. If you end up getting angular contact bearings you need to use more preload. With normal bearings they tell you to only tighten to about 1nm or finger tight when assembling the crank arms. AC bearings need 3~5nm of preload to work properly otherwise you're going to get premauture wear. This might make it more dificult to setup properly on systems that use wave washers and expanding spacers.
* There is a 70% chance that what you have just read has a peppering of cynicism or sarcasm and generally should not be taken seriously.
I'll leave it up to you to figure out the other 30%. If you are in any way offended, that's on you.

MaxPower
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:30 pm

by MaxPower

IrrelevantD wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:21 pm
MaxPower wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:16 pm
The wmf screw BB shell itself looks good and seems to have been just fine, but as i said, i needed to go angular contact bearing with a lot more preload to eliminate bearing clicking. Might have been unlucky, but the restricted manufacturer supply of 24x37x7 bearings just did that I'm about to try another BB solution
That's hits on somethign that I think not may people are aware of. If you end up getting angular contact bearings you need to use more preload. With normal bearings they tell you to only tighten to about 1nm or finger tight when assembling the crank arms. AC bearings need 3~5nm of preload to work properly otherwise you're going to get premauture wear. This might make it more dificult to setup properly on systems that use wave washers and expanding spacers.
Yes, but i found that shimanos hollowtech preload screw kan achieve enough preload. But it is NOT finger tight any more.

What i found though is that it worked well, but my hollowtech at least slipped with time, and the BB made crush noises when standing up under real torque. Preload adjustment when coming home fixed it every time. Needed to do that approx. Every 1000-1500km i think.

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IrrelevantD
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Location: Near DFW Airport

by IrrelevantD

MaxPower wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:59 pm
IrrelevantD wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:21 pm
MaxPower wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:16 pm
The wmf screw BB shell itself looks good and seems to have been just fine, but as i said, i needed to go angular contact bearing with a lot more preload to eliminate bearing clicking. Might have been unlucky, but the restricted manufacturer supply of 24x37x7 bearings just did that I'm about to try another BB solution
That's hits on somethign that I think not may people are aware of. If you end up getting angular contact bearings you need to use more preload. With normal bearings they tell you to only tighten to about 1nm or finger tight when assembling the crank arms. AC bearings need 3~5nm of preload to work properly otherwise you're going to get premauture wear. This might make it more dificult to setup properly on systems that use wave washers and expanding spacers.
Yes, but i found that shimanos hollowtech preload screw kan achieve enough preload. But it is NOT finger tight any more.

What i found though is that it worked well, but my hollowtech at least slipped with time, and the BB made crush noises when standing up under real torque. Preload adjustment when coming home fixed it every time. Needed to do that approx. Every 1000-1500km i think.
I was using a Rotor 3D, which needs an 8mm Allen key for the NDS cap. That makes it much easier to set preload accurately. One thing that Rotor states in their instructions is to tighten the cap to something like 7~8nm AFTER you've tightened the bolts on the arms. I imagine this would be to prevent the arm slipping on the spindle.

I'm curious if you could do similar with the Shimano cap. I doubt the plastic cap would take 8nm, but perhaps there's an alloy alternative or it would take 4~6 and that would be enough? Even with as many threads as are engaged with that plastic cap being as long as it is, I'd be worried about trashing them with any real torque on them.
* There is a 70% chance that what you have just read has a peppering of cynicism or sarcasm and generally should not be taken seriously.
I'll leave it up to you to figure out the other 30%. If you are in any way offended, that's on you.

dfischer1
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:19 pm

by dfischer1

jmfreeman535 wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:29 pm
I used this on my R3, and it was flawless. I just installed one on my R5, while I haven't ridden it yet, I'm expecting it to perfrom just as well.
https://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-brackets/b ... black.html

A lot of the creaking issues were on the older model, and a quality, thread-together BB, properly installed, should be problem free on the current frames
Same here. Solved all creaking on my R3. Still silent after 9000 miles.

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Noctiluxx
Posts: 916
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

is It worth ordering the ceramic bearing version of Wheels Manufacturing BB for the R5 disk?
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
2019 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Chameleon Blue)
2019 Cervelo R5 Disk (Team Sunweb)
2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 0

jmfreeman535
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:12 pm

by jmfreeman535

Noctiluxx wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:09 am
is It worth ordering the ceramic bearing version of Wheels Manufacturing BB for the R5 disk?
Ceramic bearings simply are not worth it, when it comes to bikes. Go with the Angular Contact.

On a side note...I had my first ride on my R5 today, and the BB was slicky smooth and creak free, as expected.

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