Carbon frames - how much advance in 10 years?

[VilaNova]

Hi,
I am the owner of a Guerciotti team replica with a mix of Campagnolo 11 speed components and Campagnolo Shamal Ultra wheels. It's the same frame that the Androni team rode in the 2009 and 2010 seasons.

The weight of the frame is around 1.15kgs with the ISP and paint (without paint is 1.05kg from what I have read online). It feels pretty stiff to me and I really enjoy riding it. For reference I am about 69kgs and my FTP is around 275W.

Whilst riding with some buddies someone commented that I should get a new bike as the current one 'is really old' (I bought it as a clearance in 2014 but the design dates from 2009). So my question is how much have carbon frames advanced in the past 10 years? I gather that I can save a couple of hundred grams on the frame but what else? It looks pretty aero to me with slim seat stays, and a kamm shaped seat post / seat tube although it does have very wide fork blades which probably doesn't help the aero...

Appreciate any thoughts !

[rollinslow]

You should ride the bike you enjoy the most. Carbon layup has changed in many ways that others in the industry on here can elaborate on. From resin types to layup, to dialing the ride characteristics. There are also trash carbon frames out there because of how cheap it is to manufacture at certain levels.

I have several super bikes but consider my 2010 aluminum Cervelo S1 with Super Record 12 and Corima WS+ wheels to be the best of them all. My 2009 carbon Kestrel is also great and is still ridden. People will try and convince me that a new S5 ultegra is better not knowing that cost is not the issue.

Just my 2cents.

[wilwil]

I ride a Cervelo R3SL it's a 2009 frame. It's now my winter bike.
The disadvantages are
It will only take 23 mm tyres
I don't think it has much vertical compliance in spite of its very thin seat stays.
This makes it a hard ride compared to a modern bike
The front end is very flexy to do with the 3T fork I'm told but could be the FSA handle bars

Can't put a front mudguard on it

It's very light though. At the time it was the lightest frame made.
It hasn't got disc brakes and it has external cable routing.
In comparison my C64 is an easier bike to ride.

I don't care about aero. I make myself pretty aero.
For a winter bike I would prefer bigger tyres and disc brakes. And for a best bike I prefer internal cable routing, more comfort and 25mm tyres.

It has Campag 11 speed on it from around 2010.

[AJS914]

Whilst riding with some buddies someone commented that I should get a new bike as the current one 'is really old' (I bought it as a clearance in 2014 but the design dates from 2009).

Your buddies are idiots. That is no reason to buy a new bike.

Personally, I don't think carbon fiber layup technologies have changed all that much. What I see are lots of new "features" that have been added on:

disc brakes
thru axels
direct mount brakes
increased tire clearance for wider rims and rubber
more aero tube shapes even on "non-aero" bikes
hidden cables and/or cables being routed through bars/stems/forks

The only thing I can think that has improved with layup is that aero bikes seem to have gotten a little more comfortable. They can also often take 28mm tires so that is part of the comfort equation. Seatposts have gotten thinner (back to 27.2 or D-shape) on many brands in the name of comfort.

I googled Guerciotti Team Replica and I don't think it was even a high end state-of-the-art bike at the time. It looks like a mid-range made in asia frame with a Guericiotti label and nice paint job. (Note, I could be wrong.) In any case that doesn't mean that it isn't a fine bike. Just enjoy it. Buy a new bike when you want to buy a new bike and when you have a better reason to buy a new one.

[Jugi]

Carbon bikes were built with variable designs & features 10 years ago and still are, so comparing just "bikes from 10 years" to "current bikes" is hard. It's much easier to compare a particular frame's model year to the current model.

I switched from Specialized Tarmac Pro SL3 (design from 2010) to Tarmac Pro SL6 (design from 2017) last year. Although "laterally stiff & vertically compliant" is an over-used marketing phrase, I'm quite sure the newer frame actually is clearly more laterally stiff and vertically compliant. Frame weight hasn't changed much, so the amount of material is most likely close to same, but layup has been changed incrementally through SL4, SL5 and SL6.

[kgt]

If you don't care about >25mm wide tires and electronic groupsets, then your frame is still fine.
Don't believe that a 2020 model will be better in terms of its carbon and overall manufacturing quality. See some videos by Luescher or Hambini and you will see how crappy manufacturing from the big, respected companies like Specialized, Cannondale, Trek, BMC etc. can be. In many cases an older carbon frame, like an old Colnago or an old Look or an old Parlee is much better than today's outsourced in China frames.

[VilaNova]

Thanks - I'm not into electronic gears (my 11 speed Campag mechanical shifts beautifully) or super-wide tyres. Frame should be able to take 25 tyres as there is quite a lot of room with Conti 23s

[kgt]

Some top Guerciottis were made in Italy. I am not sure that is the case with yours but, anyway, it still looks like a stiff, relatively light and nice handling frame. Can you upload a photo of it?

[rollinslow]

I was frankly surprised to be able to fit 26.5mm wide rims with 25mm corsa g's in the Cervelo S1. That made the ride quality pretty nice that's for sure.

[naylor343]

I'm on a 2009 Giant TCR adv SL team frame. The exact frame that Columbia high road and Rabobank rode. I now have it upgraded to di2. I love it and would not swap it for the world. Super stiff, comfortable and plenty light enough for me. Only downside is the max tyre size of 25mm.

[tabl10s]

Hi,
I am the owner of a Guerciotti team replica with a mix of Campagnolo 11 speed components and Campagnolo Shamal Ultra wheels. It's the same frame that the Androni team rode in the 2009 and 2010 seasons.

The weight of the frame is around 1.15kgs with the ISP and paint (without paint is 1.05kg from what I have read online). It feels pretty stiff to me and I really enjoy riding it. For reference I am about 69kgs and my FTP is around 275W.

Whilst riding with some buddies someone commented that I should get a new bike as the current one 'is really old' (I bought it as a clearance in 2014 but the design dates from 2009). So my question is how much have carbon frames advanced in the past 10 years? I gather that I can save a couple of hundred grams on the frame but what else? It looks pretty aero to me with slim seat stays, and a kamm shaped seat post / seat tube although it does have very wide fork blades which probably doesn't help the aero...

Appreciate any thoughts !

This was probably the most comfortable but it was one size too large(2013 Zero. 7):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wcJF9b ... p=drivesdk

[VilaNova]

Some top Guerciottis were made in Italy. I am not sure that is the case with yours but, anyway, it still looks like a stiff, relatively light and nice handling frame. Can you upload a photo of it?

More than happy to. Sorry I'm a newbie - does anyone know how to upload a photo?

[IrrelevantD]

Whilst riding with some buddies someone commented that I should get a new bike as the current one 'is really old'

Do your buddies work at a shop? The only buddies I have that try to push me to buy a new bike are the ones that just want to sell me a new bike.

I think the biggest thing you will see is changes in the lateral stiffness, tire clearance, and possibly new features (disc or direct mount brakes, better internal cable routing, etc). Stiffness is going to vary from frame to frame. There were some really stiff frames even 10 years ago, so that's going to vary from bike to bike. Tire clearance for wider rubber is the big thing for me. I really like being able to run 28mm tires, just that sweet spot of speed and comfort.

[stlutz]

I think the official definition of "old bike" is having a quill stem. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[Lewn777]

IMHO some of the older frames are better in terms of manufacture, but modern frames are better in terms of design. Most of the earlier carbon was made in Taiwan and in the last few years most of the carbon manufacture is now done in China for emissions reasons and labor cost reduction. Even if the underside of the frame still says 'Made in Taiwan', that's mostly just refering to the paint/and or assembly. The difference in culture between the two countries is noticeable. In China it's all about clocking in and out and going through the minimum effort to please your manager or supervisior to take home a wage. In Taiwan there is/was more pride in doing things properly and a better culture for making a good product.