to tubeless or not to tubeless, that is the question

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
ColnagoJohn
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:50 pm

by ColnagoJohn

Hi guys, ive been running bora 50's on gp5000 clinchers this season and ive really liked the ride of them, best clincher tyres ive ever had.
For next year ive got bora wto 45 which of course are capable of going tubeless, question is do i bother making the leap? its for every day riding but also road racing too. IF i go for gp5000tl tyres but dont like tubeless, can i just put inner tubes into these tyres?
any thoughts appreciated

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

There are so many other tyres out there. The co ti party trick is pace. It sacrifices alot for it.

Tubeless tyres are just that. They are not meant to be run with tubes. You wont get the tube in easily.

by Weenie


NickJHP
Posts: 374
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Location: Canberra, Australia

by NickJHP

I use both tubeless tyres with tubes in them on rims that aren't tubeless, and non-tubeless tyres setup as tubeless on tubeless rims, both without any problem. If you try tubeless and then want to switch back to tubes, you'll just need to wipe out the sealant from the tyres and rims.

pmprego
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

I just can't see the benefit of not going tubeless. Rolling resistance is claimed to be better but apart from that the main benefit for me is being so less likely to get a puncture. Even if you replace a tube at the speed of a F1 pit stop you are going to lose more time than with good tubeless tires and sealant.

pmprego
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by pmprego

Deleted, double reply.

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corky
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by corky

pmprego wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:50 am
I just can't see the benefit of not going tubeless. Rolling resistance is claimed to be better but apart from that the main benefit for me is being so less likely to get a puncture. Even if you replace a tube at the speed of a F1 pit stop you are going to lose more time than with good tubeless tires and sealant.
You’re lucky then in that you’ve never had a catastrophic tyre failure that cannot be sealed......wait until you’ve got sealant all over your bike and hands mid ride, then you’ll see why there is hesitation on wether tubeless is the saviour of the tyre world.

IME all tyre systems have their pluses and minuses........ I run all three, tubed, tubeless and tubular.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Yet with big slashes I have go my self going again
One was so bad it required me buying a new tyre. I would ha e been in that position with a clincher to. Holes in the sidewall you can shove your thumb through and other side wall wall holes are generally game over for any tyre.

Yes tubeless has no downsides when done right apart from the requirement of rims that retain the tyre without air. That's a must. If your rims cant then I would not bother running tubeless unless your prepared to carry a tube.

Most shops and mechanics dont get this hense there willingness to sell dt swiss, hed and so many other wheels and rims that let the tyre unseat if you flat.

Tubeless is somewhat undone by these simple errors.

I use tubeless tyres all year round on shirt flint strewn roads and in nice weather. With the right tyres and rims its relaible.

d36
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:56 am

by d36

I dont get tubeless for road

I went back to latex tubes after multiple punctures
Nothing sealed and I was never able to ride home without taking off the tyre and putting in a tube (which is more effort with tubeless tyres)

mentok
Posts: 577
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:58 am

by mentok

I haven't had to put a tube in my commuter in over 12000km. I've had 4 flats in that time, all were bunged and ridden onwards without dramas.

Compare that to flats weekly or worse when running tubes on the same roads last year.

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Miller
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

I started with road tubeless in 2015 after getting sick of winter stops at the side of the road to fix flats, I was well practised with those.

Not saying that in the years since I haven't had a few moments with tubeless, I have, but there has been a drastic reduction in the number of times I've been stopped fixing punctures. I've also been converted to the pleasure that come with being able to use lower tyre pressures and my life-time best 10-mile TT was set on tubeless front and rear.

dim
Posts: 588
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:25 am
Location: Cambridge UK

by dim

I've been using tubeless for a couple of years now .....

what I've learned so far:

only use tubeless ready rims (you can use tubeless tyres aswell as regular clincher tyres and tubeless tyres work great with inner tubes aswell)

the wider the tyre, the more effective the sealant works as the wider tyres use less pressure

if you struggle to seat your tubeless tyre for the first time, add sealant to the tyre before pumping it up .... it always works, but use a track pump

buy a decent pump for when on the road (this is very important) ... a tiny pump that fits in the palm of your hand will not help you

use decent sealant I use Orange regular and not the endurance version as the regular version seals larger holes... if you live in countries that get extreme cold conditions, orange selant endurance (and there's another version for even colder climates), is what you will need to use ... Here in the UK, the regular version is OK for the whole year

get the dynaplug racer kit ... expensive at first, but then you just buy the inserts/worms which are cheap

whenever you pump your tyres, rotate the wheel so that the valve is at the 10 or 11 O'clock position ....(this allows the sealant to be far away from the valve

once youve added sealant and pumped your tyres and all seems ok, spin the wheel a few times, or go for a ride so as to spread the sealant all around the tyre

always carry CO2 ....if you have a puncture and loose most of the air after the sealant plugs the hole, CO2 will seat the tyre and get you home (some say that CO2 coagulates the sealant so it's no big deal till you get the next puncture (then the sealant will not work as it's coagulated into a ball)

if you struggle to fit the tyre on the tubeless rim, you perhaps have too many layers of tape or the wrong tape (use tubeless rim tape)... my newest tubeless wheelset is HED Belgium Plus rims and I've used the new HED rim tape which specifies that only 1 layer of tape is needed .... tyres fitted by hand, and all is good after a few hundred miles

get proper tubeless valves .... I use the new Silca tubeless valves

carry an inner tube and use this as a last resort

always carry a bit of sealant especially if you are going on a long ride

top up sealant with 30ml every 6 weeks.... at this stage, it's good to lay your valve core in a cup of warm water to clean it

always carry a couple of spare valve cores (if you damage the valve core while pumping the tyre, you will need to remove it and replace it ... you also need to carry the valve core remover.... if you have the valve core remover tool (it's about £3), you can remove the valve cores from any old inner tubes that you have laying around... and use them as spares

Orange sealant is not sticky and won't damage your frame ... it wipes off with a damp cloth

if you are on the road and have a puncture, spin the wheel so that the puncture is on the bottom, and give the wheel a few shakes up and down .... this will seal the hole. If the hole is too large, use a dynaplup or worm (takes seconds)

if you need to add an innertube, you have to remove the tubeless valve first (do not loose it!)

tubeless tyres are great if you follow the above laws ... many times, people have punctures with tubeless tyres and don't even realize they had a puncture, as many times, the sealant seals the hole almost immediately... I know of people who add glitter to the sealant, so that they can see if they had a puncture without knowing!
Last edited by dim on Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:27 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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vinny
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Location: california

by vinny

dim wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:49 pm
I've been using tubeless for a couple of years now .....

what I've learned so far:
......
top up sealant with 30ml every 6 weeks
This is the part that i have a question about.

So every 6 weeks should i just top it up or should i remove the tire clean out the old sealant and refill it?

it seems that topping up the sealant will eventually just fill up the tire with sealant.

Just to be clear here I am considering going to tubless and just need a bit more info, i have ZERO experence with it.

dim
Posts: 588
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:25 am
Location: Cambridge UK

by dim

vinny wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:57 pm
dim wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:49 pm
I've been using tubeless for a couple of years now .....

what I've learned so far:
......
top up sealant with 30ml every 6 weeks
This is the part that i have a question about.

So every 6 weeks should i just top it up or should i remove the tire clean out the old sealant and refill it?

it seems that topping up the sealant will eventually just fill up the tire with sealant.

Just to be clear here I am considering going to tubless and just need a bit more info, i have ZERO experence with it.
I never remove the old sealant, but saying that I do lots of miles and change tyres every 3-4 months .... the 30ml in a tyre is not a lot and when it's old, it will create a very very thin layer around the inside of the tyre (.... micro thin ...it will not make your tyre a lot heavier) .... if you keep your tyres on your bike for the whole year or longer, perhaps remove the tyre after 6 months and wipe the inside of the tyre with a cloth that has been wetted with warm water .... the sealant just wipes off straight away
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Miyata One Thousand

AJS914
Posts: 4130
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I cleaned out my tires (gravel bike) after two years. You will get a feel for how often you need to top up sealant by how well your tires stay at pressure. It seems to be dependent on the porosity of the tire. I just refilled those same tires with Stans. The first fill up lasted only three weeks. These tires are very porous. You can see them weep from the sidewalls. It was also 100F here this summer and probably 120F in my garage. The next top up lasted a month and I've been toping up every 5-6 weeks since then.

I installed Conti GP5000TLs on my road bike a month ago. They seem so well sealed with the extra butyl layer inside the tire that I think the sealant will last for months. There is zero weeping on these tires. A month later I can shake the wheel side to side and still hear sealant sloshing around. I'll check them in another month. You can take the valve out and put an old spoke down the hole like a dip stick. I'll probably just add 30ml. A little extra weight doesn't bother me as I'd prefer not to get a flat on the road.

by Weenie


Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

WTO45 and High Roads ;)

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