Shimano XTR CN-M9100 chain on 9100 series Dura Ace

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BdaGhisallo
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by BdaGhisallo

kode54 wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:52 pm
Its possible that my chainline needs to be moved outwards by 1-2mm as I can see the chain stretched/crossed more severely on the thinner oval section. 52/36T .
It appears that my issue was that the FD simply couldn't move far enough outboard to get the 12sp to shift cleanly onto the big ring. I had the FD as close to the chain in the big ring/smallest cog combo as it would go and the chain still wouldn't shift up smoothly.

I just measured the Shimano chains' outside widths - 11sp 5.60mm 12 sp 5.21mm. Who knew that 0.39 of a mm could make such a huge difference?

I will miss the 12sp chain because it was definitely a lot quieter.

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ryanw
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by ryanw

Just set your bike up correctly and it will work. Either your BB/crank isn't spaced correctly or FD high limit not adjusted.
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ms6073
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by ms6073

ryanw wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:44 pm
Just set your bike up correctly and it will work. Either your BB/crank isn't spaced correctly or FD high limit not adjusted.
While I would not phrase it like that, but have to agree with the sentiment as this is especially true if talking about a Di2 front derailleur that has reached the limit of Shimano's electronic adjustment. If it is a mechanical deraillerur, then definitely adjust high limit.
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BdaGhisallo
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by BdaGhisallo

ms6073 wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:21 pm
ryanw wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:44 pm
Just set your bike up correctly and it will work. Either your BB/crank isn't spaced correctly or FD high limit not adjusted.
While I would not phrase it like that, but have to agree with the sentiment as this is especially true if talking about a Di2 front derailleur that has reached the limit of Shimano's electronic adjustment. If it is a mechanical deraillerur, then definitely adjust high limit.
I am pretty sure it's set up correctly. This is my 12th year of using Shimano DI2 FD's and I've never had any issues with the front shifting until I started using the 12sp chain with my otherwise 11sp setup. As soon as I put the 11sp back on it shifted like a dream with no adjustment needed.

My only thought is that the chainline on my SRM DA 9000 powermeter might not be exactly the same as a stock DA crankset and that slight difference in chain widths brings that to light. (The last stock DA crankset I used was a 7800 crankset back in about 2004.) I also noticed that when in the 39x13 on a 12-28 cassette, the 12sp chain ran a lot quieter whereas the 11sp chain will ping off the big ring shifter pins a bit and make some noise.

Hexsense
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by Hexsense

I thought mine was bad too not shifting well on top half of the cassette.

9070 FD.
Checked upper limit: good, lower limit screw: good.

The only problem was electronic adjustment. Go to big/big combo then enter di2 adjustment mode and press front up shift a couple time and it's then it's electronically adjusted well.
Not shifting well only on the top half of the cassette (where electronic trim is in place) is a big tell tell sign that it's not about the limit screws but rather, electronic adjustment of my di2 FD.

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ms6073
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by ms6073

BdaGhisallo wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:38 pm
My only thought is that the chainline on my SRM DA 9000 powermeter might not be exactly the same as a stock DA crankset and that slight difference in chain widths brings that to light.
Well that would have been good to know up front. I also used to own the SRM DA 9000, and the design of the spider/spindle interface definitely alters/increases the offset as compared to a standard Shimano DA 9000 or R9100 crankset. Additionally, if your frame is BB86, depending on the bottom bracket being used, the width of the drive side flange of the bottom bracket can also to the offeset.
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mathieurrr
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by mathieurrr

I had a similar issue last week where out of nowhere my Shimano XT M8100 chain when from shifting perfectly to no longer shifting from small to big on the front regardless of which cog it was on in the rear. I'm currently on Simano 105 r7000 and my fix was as simple as turning my barrel adjustment a half turn counter clockwise. I'm still not sure if this was an issue with the chain or slackening cable, either way its back to shifting like a dream.

GeoffS
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by GeoffS

For those waxing their 12-speed chains - what quick link are you using?

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

The Shimano 12-speed quick links. I reuse mine with no problems.

milanv
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by milanv

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:09 am
The Shimano 12-speed quick links. I reuse mine with no problems.
:beerchug: The same here...

kode54
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by kode54

Most don't know about the big/big electronic trim. It does help. I didn't know it was a feature with 9070....i thought from 9150 and newer.
Hexsense wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:08 pm
I thought mine was bad too not shifting well on top half of the cassette.

9070 FD.
Checked upper limit: good, lower limit screw: good.

The only problem was electronic adjustment. Go to big/big combo then enter di2 adjustment mode and press front up shift a couple time and it's then it's electronically adjusted well.
Not shifting well only on the top half of the cassette (where electronic trim is in place) is a big tell tell sign that it's not about the limit screws but rather, electronic adjustment of my di2 FD.
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BdaGhisallo
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by BdaGhisallo

kode54 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:59 pm
Most don't know about the big/big electronic trim. It does help. I didn't know it was a feature with 9070....i thought from 9150 and newer.
Hexsense wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:08 pm
I thought mine was bad too not shifting well on top half of the cassette.

9070 FD.
Checked upper limit: good, lower limit screw: good.

The only problem was electronic adjustment. Go to big/big combo then enter di2 adjustment mode and press front up shift a couple time and it's then it's electronically adjusted well.
Not shifting well only on the top half of the cassette (where electronic trim is in place) is a big tell tell sign that it's not about the limit screws but rather, electronic adjustment of my di2 FD.
I was sure that I hadn't overlooked this aspect of the FD adjustment process but I just checked it again to be sure. It was dialed in and still wouldn't shift the 12sp chain properly. If I find some time soon I will pull the Ultegra crank off my wife's bike and swap it out with my SRM pm and see how it compares.

Hexsense
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by Hexsense

Lets try this:
hi-limit screw: slightly to moderately too far outboard.
low limit screw: almost touch the chain on the inside on the small/small.
then play with electronic adjustment later.

Since the chain is narrower than officially designed for FD, you might have to deviate slightly from the setup guide (bias toward too far out, to aid upshifting).

BdaGhisallo
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by BdaGhisallo

Hexsense wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:16 pm
Lets try this:
hi-limit screw: slightly to moderately too far outboard.
low limit screw: almost touch the chain on the inside on the small/small.
then play with electronic adjustment later.

Since the chain is narrower than officially designed for FD, you might have to deviate slightly from the setup guide (bias toward too far out, to aid upshifting).
My 9150 FD is maxed on on the electronic adjustments that would help it upshift the 12sp chain. It shifts perfectly with the 11sp chain.

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Hexsense
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by Hexsense

and high limit too?

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