Shimano XTR CN-M9100 chain on 9100 series Dura Ace

[uppis]

According to ZeroFriction the KMC chains have a treatment that doesn't play nicely with the wax. Thanks for the info.

Thanks for the info, I missed that!

Do you rotate yout waxed chains? Does the 12s xtr work nicely after of before 11s chains, do you need to adjust derailleurs between the chains?

I do rotate them, I use to wax them 3 by 3 or 4 by 4. I do not recall I had to tune derailleur between Shimano chains... but I likely did since I run quite different cassettes (Shimano, Edco monobloc and sram 1190).


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- Supersix evo2 HM 5707g
- 1995 Miguel Indurain Pinarello restauration project
- R3000si Junior bike restauration project.

Alright, thanks, I'm going to run just one casette so let hope for the best.

[SgtRock]

A bit confused by the Hyperglide+ comments made on page 1, which seem to suggest that XTR CN-M-9100 chains use Hyperglide+ and wouldn't be likely to play nicely with non Hyperglide+ cassettes, but other posters have used XTR 9100 chains with DA 9000 and Sram cassettes with good results. I want to use a XTR 9100 chain with DA 9000 and Ultegra 8000 cassettes - it seems the balance of opinion is this will work fine - I think?

Second question relates to jockey wheels. I'm using a SRAM etap rear mech (the new design with the clutch mechanism, which has narrow wide jockey wheels). As I understand things the internal width of chains is the same - only the outside width changes. I know the internal plates are a bit different on XTR chains. So will I need to thin down the jockey wheels?

My aim is to sort my noisey drive train. I have a Rotor Aldhu chainest and when in the 50t ring with the 25t or 28t sprockets it is very noisey. I think this is principally down to 405mm chain stays possibly in combination with the Rotor one piece rings which resonate when you tap the rings (Going to give a Shimano chain set a go as well to see if that helps as well). I think the chain angle is pulling the chain across the teeth maybe? Certainly nothing touching the FM or other.

Would be great if you guys could clarify things for me.

Cherrs

[R1Phrankey]

I am using the XT CN-M-8100 chain with Ultegra R8000 cassette (group) and works perfectly.

[alexmcm09]

A bit confused by the Hyperglide+ comments made on page 1, which seem to suggest that XTR CN-M-9100 chains use Hyperglide+ and wouldn't be likely to play nicely with non Hyperglide+ cassettes, but other posters have used XTR 9100 chains with DA 9000 and Sram cassettes with good results. I want to use a XTR 9100 chain with DA 9000 and Ultegra 8000 cassettes - it seems the balance of opinion is this will work fine - I think?

Second question relates to jockey wheels. I'm using a SRAM etap rear mech (the new design with the clutch mechanism, which has narrow wide jockey wheels). As I understand things the internal width of chains is the same - only the outside width changes. I know the internal plates are a bit different on XTR chains. So will I need to thin down the jockey wheels?

My aim is to sort my noisey drive train. I have a Rotor Aldhu chainest and when in the 50t ring with the 25t or 28t sprockets it is very noisey. I think this is principally down to 405mm chain stays possibly in combination with the Rotor one piece rings which resonate when you tap the rings (Going to give a Shimano chain set a go as well to see if that helps as well). I think the chain angle is pulling the chain across the teeth maybe? Certainly nothing touching the FM or other.

Would be great if you guys could clarify things for me.

Cherrs

I use an XTR chain on a Dura Ace 9100 cassette and it works flawlessly. I can also confirm the chain doesn't play nicely with an 11 speed NW pulley wheel. I bought some cheap eBay delrin 12/14 pulley wheels to play around with and the chain wouldn't sit properly on the wide teeth.

[Dakrisht]

Want to add this to thread: I just installed a XT CN-M8100 chain on a GRX 2x drivetrain (which used a stock Ultegra cassette and Ultegra chain) and the noise difference is night and day. Maybe 50% quieter no joke.

Even when max cross-chaining, not only is there no front cage rub on either ring, but it's super quiet which is insane for such a wide cross chain.

Big / small ring shifting performance in the front is also improved by a touch, it's just smoother.

A total improvement in the overall drivetrain, but the noise reduction is simply mind blowing. I pedaled this thing on the work stand in the dead silence of night and it was just SILENT.

Ordering another XT CN-M8100 for my Ultegra bike now.

I was considering the M9100 but you're saving maybe 25 grams for the hollow pins vs. solid pins so not worth it unless you're counting grams.

[probertsqbe]

Welcome to the quiet chain club it’s a beautiful thing.

[GeoffS]

I was considering the M9100 but you're saving maybe 25 grams for the hollow pins vs. solid pins so not worth it unless you're counting grams.

Even less than that - the difference is only 10 grams (252 vs 242 gm according to Shimano website) !

[TheOnlyAaron]

Is it safe to assume that there might be issues with me running the XTR 12 speed chain with a 1x11 build given that people seem to be having issues with the chain not fitting narrow wide profile jockey wheels? I wonder would if the 12 speed chain cause issues with the narrow wide chain ring?

[Raimundo]

The pitch is exactly the same between an 11speed or a 12 speed. You should have no issues with narrow-wide.

The only thing you might want to adjust, and the only thing that you can actually adjust when changing from a 11s to a 12s is the throw of the front derailleur, but this kind of micro-adjustment is only possible with eletronic groupsets...

...considering that a 12s chain is thinner than a 11s, then a 11s will engage the shifting ramps more positively, because the wider width of the 11s will position the outside of the outer plate of the chain closer to the shifting ramps of the ring, if you only change the chain from a 11s to a 12s without adjusting nothings, this is.

This mambo jambo will happen "on paper" mostly. But we can notice a minor deterioration on front shifting if one is very finicky wit their setup, or a very sensitive rider/mechanic.

Either way, i,ve been running higher speed chains (12s on 11s, 11s on 10s and so on...) on my setups for years now without many issues. And to be honest a silent drivetrIn is well worth it...
Lower speed drivetrains do seem impervious to the this though.

[Hexsense]

xtr 12 speed chain has extended inner plate (feature component of hyperglide plus shifting system). It doesn't work with my narrow wide pulley. The wide teeth collide with the extended inner plate that protude into the space of wide teeth.
For narrow wide chainring, it depends. It might work but don't be surprised if it doesn't mate well.

[Raimundo]

@Hexsense, and the narrower inner width on the 12s chains doesn't help your issue with the NW jockey wheels either... to this day (i might be too thick) i still haven't digested the need for NW pulleys, but that's beside the point

On the chainring part, the NW 1X stups i have (i don't use NW jockey wheels) Wolftooth and E13 mate extremely well wit the CN-M9100, and it has me wondering since you had me recheck my setups if i am not trading excellent chain retention at the cost of too many lost watts in chain friction.

[Hexsense]

I don't need NW jockey wheels for sure.
It's just that my 12t jockey wheels come with it. I end up grind all wide teeth down with dremel. Making them all narrow.

[Raimundo]

weightweenies best friend!! Doctor Dremel

[Dakrisht]

Welcome to the quiet chain club it’s a beautiful thing.

Still blown away at the difference. My GRX drivetrain is basically silent. It's out of control. Mind blown. Haha.

Ultegra going up next...

[tfayet]

Hello
I will install in fews days a XTR 9100 12 spedd chain on my full Dura Ace 9100 groupset
Do I need to change something on my read derailleur (pulley)?
Let me know