Shimano XTR CN-M9100 chain on 9100 series Dura Ace

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ms6073
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by ms6073

tfayet wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:38 am
New XTR M9100 chain received today.
Still the same problem... See photo, the chain can not be release easily from the top pulley. There is no special effects on the photo

Image
Has that brand new chain been waxed? Maybe it is the angle but looks as if there is wax residue inside the link pins.
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tfayet
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by tfayet

ms6073 wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:08 pm
tfayet wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:38 am
New XTR M9100 chain received today.
Still the same problem... See photo, the chain can not be release easily from the top pulley. There is no special effects on the photo

Image
Has that brand new chain been waxed? Maybe it is the angle but looks as if there is wax residue inside the link pins.
No wax residue. It is the angle of the photo

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

So I did some research on my system. I took out a short piece of new XTR chain that has been cleaned, with no lube or wax residue. If I use my finger and press the new chain against a new upper pulley wheel I could feel some resistance. If I do the same thing using a 11-speed Dura Ace chain then there's no resistance. The resistance is only there if I press the chain against the pulley wheel. On my bike I currently have a waxed XTR chain and a brand new upper pulley that has only seen two rides. When back-pedaling I don't see the chain sticking to the pulley wheel, nor do I feel any extra resistance caused by the tighter fit. I think the resistance is only there if you press the chain against the pulley, and not there during normal pedaling operation.

tfayet
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by tfayet

Sorry
Bug on my bike with XTR chain I had resistance during normal pédalier.
I say I had because I removed few material in my top pulley.
See my last post.
tfayet wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:15 pm
I did this thing.
alanyu wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:25 pm

The only problem is that my narrow wide jockey wheel is designed for 11s so it's a bit wider. I filed down the wide tooth maybe 0.3mm. They are made of nylon so it's not hard to do.
Now it is good.
Top pulley was à little too much large


Now it is ok with xtr9100 chain

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

Alanyu has a narrow-wide jockey wheel, which will definitely fit more tightly than the normal symmetrical and standard Shimano upper pulley.

I would be interesting to see if anyone else notices extra resistance while pedaling. The pulley wheel is definitely not designed for a 12-speed chain but in practice I've not noticed any issues.

Does anyone have access to a Shimano 12-speed upper pulley and can do a comparison between the 12-speed and 11-speed pulley wheels?

Discodan
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by Discodan

I did a bit of measuring of a 11 speed chain and 12 speed XT (which I assume is the same as XTR). No hard conclusions but some data to add to the discussion:

- In the narrow section, between the inner plates, there's 2.25mm clearance for the teeth on the 12s and 12.30mm on the 11s.
- On the wide section it's a much bigger difference, 0.3mm, but that will not be the limiting factor as it's much wider than the narrow section
- The 12s has extended outer plates that protrude into the larger tooth hole, once again hard to see it having an effect as there's more clearance in that hole
- the width of the teeth on my 11s 8070 jockey wheel is 2.03mm, and this has worked fine with 12s for >4,000km

So the 12s is definitely a bit tighter where the teeth enter, but should have enough clearance and that seems to be evidenced by all of the others who this is working for. Could it be your jockey wheel is just too thick for some reason? That would make the difference

edit: just saw I'd missed a few posts and you'd already come to this conclusion and solved the problem

milanv
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by milanv

So, I have changed Shimano Dura-ace chainring 52 + Absolute Black oval 36 with Carbon-Ti oval 50 + 36 and it is impossible for me to set up good shifting, Shimano XTR 12s chain.
E. g. the chain resists on smaller chainring when shifting up and makes small jumps, jumps down from the small chainring sometimes...😕
I am making set up on stand, so when riding, it could be fatal and can cause a bike damage from stucked chain...

I will try Shimano Dura-ace 11s chain and let we see...
So Dura-ace chainrings no problem, any other can have...

TurboKoo
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by TurboKoo

Image

Are you using 12s Shimano quicklink? You should not use it unless you have specific Shimano 12s chainrings as the quicklink is the problem. This was apparent already with MTB parts but now also on some combinations on the road.

Left side is SRAM and right side Shimano.
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Schadenfreude
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by Schadenfreude

TurboKoo wrote:
Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:22 am
Are you using 12s Shimano quicklink? You should not use it unless you have specific Shimano 12s chainrings as the quicklink is the problem. This was apparent already with MTB parts but now also on some combinations on the road.

Left side is SRAM and right side Shimano.
What quicklinks are people using with the XTR chains? I plan on waxing the chain, so bought half a dozen YBN 12 speed quicklinks. Are others using these with success?

milanv
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by milanv

TurboKoo wrote:
Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:22 am
Image

Are you using 12s Shimano quicklink? You should not use it unless you have specific Shimano 12s chainrings as the quicklink is the problem. This was apparent already with MTB parts but now also on some combinations on the road.

Left side is SRAM and right side Shimano.
Yes, attached Shimano 12s quicklink. I have KMC, SRAM also, so I will try it, thank you.

Defender110
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by Defender110

I have the same issue as tfayet - all on brand new equipment from shimano on my 1x road bike build. new XTR di2 RD, new 11spd XTR rear cassette, and new XTR 12spd chain w/the shimano masterlink it came with. I noticed I couldn't get it dailed in and could isolate my issue to the chain sticking slightly to the top pulley then releasing and causing it to snap into the cassette teeth. I thought maybe I cut the chain too short so figured I'd try my 11spd chain with an extra link in it - 11spd chain works perfectly in the same RD settings and such.

Maybe my chain was too short but the sticking to the top pulley was odd and happened regardless of what gear I was in and thus how much tension may be on the chain if it was being stretched too much. I didn't see the top XTR RD pulley as a narrow/wide type as it doesn't look like my other N/W pulleys - but maybe those teeth or slightly larger and filing down would eliminate the sticking. I have a cheap pulley wheel I may try putting in the top position and see if the 12 spd chain works better as the teeth on that pulley wheel are pretty narrow.

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

Can you post a short video of the problem and link it here? Don’t file down the pulley wheel just yet.


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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

I’ve been reusing both 11 and 12 speed Shimano quick links with no issues.


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TurboKoo
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by TurboKoo

pdlpsher1 wrote:I’ve been reusing both 11 and 12 speed Shimano quick links with no issues.


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Shimano says it’s not reusable and that means you should change it when you put new chain.
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ryanw
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by ryanw

I've reused quick-links over 10 times and never had a single problem. My quick-links last the duration of the chain.
I only have new links when a new chain goes on.
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