Frame with steep angles (HT...)

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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moock
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:53 pm

by moock

Hey guys,

do you know any bikes (framesets) with steep Headtube and Seattube? 73.5 - 74deg in size 56/58/L/XL
my list so far:
-Spesh tarmac (meh dont like the brand)
-Felt FR (frameset is just too expensive @4k)
-Canyon Ultimate

do you have any more ideas? I would apprechiate non aeroframes as the geo most time is too agressive for my bodie.

thx :-)

DaveS
Posts: 2991
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm

by DaveS

Why would you want that? Most brands have similar geometry because it works.

by Weenie


moock
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:53 pm

by moock

DaveS wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:22 pm
Why would you want that? Most brands have similar geometry because it works.
steeper ST to come more foreward. I already use 0mm setback.
steeper HT for sharper cornering.

Hexsense
Posts: 1406
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Sharper cornering is more of product of trail, more than just steep HTA alone.
Look for frame with low trail value. 72-73 HTA with high fork rake can corner sharper than 73.5 deg with low fork rake.

Karvalo
Posts: 1211
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

moock wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:37 pm
DaveS wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:22 pm
Why would you want that? Most brands have similar geometry because it works.
...
steeper HT for sharper cornering.
Just out of interest, what bike are you comparing it to, and why do you want it that sharp?

mrlobber
Posts: 1147
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

Benotti (AX Lightness) Vial Evo Ultra has 73.5 deg HT / 73.5 deg ST @ size 56.
Retired bikes: Cervelo S5 2015 / Felt AR FRD 2014 / Cannondale SS HM 2014 / Scott Addict SL 2014 / Scott Plasma Premium 2014 / Orbea Orca 2008 / Look 596 /

Mr.Gib
Posts: 3885
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

moock wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:37 pm
steeper HT for sharper cornering.
Careful with this. With a given fork offset, steeper head tube angles make the bike less responsive to lean. If you want a bike to turn in and hook up in a carve with a minimum of effort on your part, that you want a more slack head tube angle. Bikes with more upright head tubes can be very agile and tossable, it's just that when it comes to high speed cornering, descending, they will require more lean. The upside is that they require less precision on the part of the rider. They can be very stable in all situations and very hard to "upset".
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

moock
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:53 pm

by moock

Karvalo wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:00 pm
moock wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:37 pm
DaveS wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:22 pm
Why would you want that? Most brands have similar geometry because it works.
...
steeper HT for sharper cornering.
Just out of interest, what bike are you comparing it to, and why do you want it that sharp?
currently i have an Allez Sprint. It is pretty ok and i dont want less sharp feeling

moock
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:53 pm

by moock

mrlobber wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:43 pm
Benotti (AX Lightness) Vial Evo Ultra has 73.5 deg HT / 73.5 deg ST @ size 56.
Sadly, i cannot handle this geometrie! My legs are just huge so the stack will be too low

mrlobber
Posts: 1147
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

578mm is too low, really? More than 20mm higher than Allez Sprint 56 and just 5mm lower than Allez Sprint 58.

Anyway, as others have commented, HT angle in combination with fork rake & tyre size (which together determine trail) will (mostly) be resposible for bike handling in corners.
Retired bikes: Cervelo S5 2015 / Felt AR FRD 2014 / Cannondale SS HM 2014 / Scott Addict SL 2014 / Scott Plasma Premium 2014 / Orbea Orca 2008 / Look 596 /

muti
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:09 am

by muti

Trek emondas have pretty steep headtube angles,matched with 40mm rake to give neutral steering.56 has 73.3 seatube angle and 58 has 73 and relatively high stack heights. Ritchey logic 57 has 73.5/73.5-43 rake and 587mm stack height(although I understand it's not a type of frame that you are looking for).

Etienne
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:41 am
Location: France

by Etienne

mrlobber wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:52 am
578mm is too low, really? More than 20mm higher than Allez Sprint 56 and just 5mm lower than Allez Sprint 58.
As the OP suggested he has very long legs, I guess he has also his saddle set quite high ... 578mm would then be too low indeed.

For instance, I am 183cm with a 93cm inseam ... my saddle height is set at 80cm (relatively low considering my inseam by the way) and any bike with more than 395mm of reach and less than 595mm of stack is too low AND too long. Furthermore, being short torsoed, I have a relatively limited setback and need a ST angle of 73,5°or more, see here to understand why : https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bi ... oad-bikes/

If you can find a frame that is at the same time : short, tall and racy ... perhaps is this what Moock is looking for :idea:

by Weenie


alcatraz
Posts: 3329
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Hexsense wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:59 pm
Sharper cornering is more of product of trail, more than just steep HTA alone.
Look for frame with low trail value. 72-73 HTA with high fork rake can corner sharper than 73.5 deg with low fork rake.
This!

Ignore HT, look at trail in the geometry chart. The fork design can make a shallow HT corner sharper than a steep HT.

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