Threaded to threadless

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The main advantage you'll have is that you'll be open to modern 31.8mm handlebars.

I upgraded to get newer, lighter aero handlebars from my 26.0 or 26.4 Cinelli Ergo bars and Cinelli XA stems.
My original aheadset stem on my one bike allowed me to use my Cinelli Ergo bars.
But all the new fancy, aero alloy, carbon etc need 31.8mm stem. So I made the changes. I'm glad I did too as I think this is your main advantage.
The hollow alloy, carbon or carbon/alloy stems seem much stiffer too.

Yup, I went so far as to design my own conversion headset to allow use of threadless stems while retaining the original threaded fork. Two examples of bikes I've built with the headset:

That is a very elegant design, bravo!

At the moment a cheap 100 gram ahead stem + the full height Innicycle system (265 g) comes to 365 grams in total.

The lightest quill stem is still the 200 grams Cinelli Grammo and a lightweight 1" threaded headset is about 90 grams - e.g. Tange Falcon, so about 290 grams in total. (75 grams lighter)

The lightest readily available quill adaptor weighs 142 grams (Deda) - if you can find a Cinelli one, they are much lighter but extremely rare. So 142 + 100 + 90 = 332 grams for a competitive system to the Innicycle. (33 grams lighter)


I'm curious what the minimum weight would be if you ride with a slammed stem and fit a Titanium bolt. Would it be possible to remove more than 75 grams in total after cutting the unit down to size?

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I see that you answered this in another forum: https://www.bikeforums.net/21528309-post149.html

"Trimming the steerer tube portion down to its minimum height will shave 35-40 grams off the weight depending on the height of your stem (typically 38-45mm). To further reduce weight, you can also then trim the unused portion of the steel stud (on underside of the top cap going to the cone wedge) to remove another ~20 grams. You’ll want to paint the cut face to keep it from rusting or at least coat it with grease.

So starting from 265 grams, you should be at 205-210 grams once cut down."

If a titanium bolt can fit you might lose another 10+ grams? So 200g + 100g (lightweight ahead stem) = 300 grams - That means that it is competitive to the lightest quill stem/threaded headset set up with the advantage of making weight weenie stems and 31.8mm H/bars available to fit:

Darimo's DARIMO CARBON IX2 Stem = 60-80 grams + a slammed, chopped and tuned Innicycle set up -195 - 200 grams = 255 - 280 grams in total

It's certainly worth while buying if you can afford it.

[joejack951]

I see that you answered this in another forum: https://www.bikeforums.net/21528309-post149.html

"Trimming the steerer tube portion down to its minimum height will shave 35-40 grams off the weight depending on the height of your stem (typically 38-45mm). To further reduce weight, you can also then trim the unused portion of the steel stud (on underside of the top cap going to the cone wedge) to remove another ~20 grams. You’ll want to paint the cut face to keep it from rusting or at least coat it with grease.

So starting from 265 grams, you should be at 205-210 grams once cut down."

If a titanium bolt can fit you might lose another 10+ grams? So 200g + 100g (lightweight ahead stem) = 300 grams - That means that it is competitive to the lightest quill stem/threaded headset set up with the advantage of making weight weenie stems and 31.8mm H/bars available to fit:

Darimo's DARIMO CARBON IX2 Stem = 60-80 grams + a slammed, chopped and tuned Innicycle set up -195 - 200 grams = 255 - 280 grams in total

It's certainly worth while buying it is you can afford it.

First, I appreciate your interest and questions. And thanks for researching my old posts for me! I knew I had documented all that somewhere. Just a couple notes:

1. A titanium 'bolt' could fit, assuming you had one made to the same specs as I make the current one. Aside from the bearings, every piece used in the headset is a custom part that I designed, including the steel threaded shaft. I made my initial prototypes using a standard socket head cap screw (like those used in most quill stems) but decided that I neither liked the look nor wanted the extra weight. The current design shaved 13 grams off the weight of the original.




2. The actual weight of the current innicycle is slightly less than the original (conservatively quoted) weight due to an aluminum wedge:



So starting from 240 grams, subtracting 55 gets you down to 185. A typical threadless stem in the 120-130 gram range gives a total weight of 315 grams then. Compare that to an often used quill stem like the Cinelli 1A:



Add even a light headset, like the shockingly flimsy plastic one that came on my Trek 660 and you are well under for a system that is way stiffer, better sealed, etc.

Original Trek 660 Stronglight headset:


Typical all-steel headset (the pig that came off a Trek 400):


Anyone that was considering one of those Cinelli Grammo titanium stems ought to be able to easily justify an innicycle

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@joejack951

Great stuff, please keep going with the weight reductions. How about using "drillium" on some parts?

I discovered your product during my research for a future "restomod" Peugeot, Reynolds 753 project. The bike currently weighs 9.7 Kg and with the parts I chose, I can get it down to below 6.7Kg without spending too much (in my mind, less than €2000 isn't bad for a sub 7 Kg bike)

The Cinelli Grammo or a brand new Ibis titanium stem with a light alloy headset, is the target to beat. http://www.bikepro.com/products/stems/ibis.shtml or a total 290-300 grams for the system.

The recent weightloss has made your product the optimum solution, with the new minimum weight of 185 grams, you still have the lowest system weight with stems up to 110-115 grams. Any more grams you can remove will maintain this position as "the lightest" but with a larger choice of stems, unfortunately the better looking or older aheadset stems weigh around 130 grams and above.


This is the cheap 100 gram stem I mentioned in my previous posts: https://www.rosebikes.com/rose-osc-stem ... hape=black
I bought a 100mm one for a previous build and fitted titanium bolts to get the weight down to 90 grams. Have you thought about selling the same stem with Innicycle branding?

[schlafen]

@joejack951

Great stuff, please keep going with the weight reductions. How about using "drillium" on some parts?

I discovered your product during my research for a future "restomod" Peugeot, Reynolds 753 project. The bike currently weighs 9.7 Kg and with the parts I chose, I can get it down to below 6.7Kg without spending too much (in my mind, less than €2000 isn't bad for a sub 7 Kg bike)

The Cinelli Grammo or a brand new Ibis titanium stem with a light alloy headset, is the target to beat. http://www.bikepro.com/products/stems/ibis.shtml or a total 290-300 grams for the system.

The recent weightloss has made your product the optimum solution, with the new minimum weight of 185 grams, you still have the lowest system weight with stems up to 110-115 grams. Any more grams you can remove will maintain this position as "the lightest" but with a larger choice of stems, unfortunately the better looking or older aheadset stems weigh around 130 grams and above.


This is the cheap 100 gram stem I mentioned in my previous posts: https://www.rosebikes.com/rose-osc-stem ... hape=black
I bought a 100mm one for a previous build and fitted titanium bolts to get the weight down to 90 grams. Have you thought about selling the same stem with Innicycle branding?

I've had my local frame builder replace the steerer tube with a non-threaded one. Very common and safe operation. Inexpensive as well, I paid £60.

Then I used a 1" threadless headset and a shim.

This works if it's not a unicrown fork. If it is, talk to your frame builder first.

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

[joejack951]

@joejack951

Great stuff, please keep going with the weight reductions. How about using "drillium" on some parts?

I discovered your product during my research for a future "restomod" Peugeot, Reynolds 753 project. The bike currently weighs 9.7 Kg and with the parts I chose, I can get it down to below 6.7Kg without spending too much (in my mind, less than €2000 isn't bad for a sub 7 Kg bike)

The Cinelli Grammo or a brand new Ibis titanium stem with a light alloy headset, is the target to beat. http://www.bikepro.com/products/stems/ibis.shtml or a total 290-300 grams for the system.

The recent weightloss has made your product the optimum solution, with the new minimum weight of 185 grams, you still have the lowest system weight with stems up to 110-115 grams. Any more grams you can remove will maintain this position as "the lightest" but with a larger choice of stems, unfortunately the better looking or older aheadset stems weigh around 130 grams and above.


This is the cheap 100 gram stem I mentioned in my previous posts: https://www.rosebikes.com/rose-osc-stem ... hape=black
I bought a 100mm one for a previous build and fitted titanium bolts to get the weight down to 90 grams. Have you thought about selling the same stem with Innicycle branding?

Sounds like an awesome project. Definitely keep me posted!

Not sure there are any drillium opportunities but there are a few areas where additional weight can be removed but for cost reasons, I can’t justify going there. But, for someone looking to shave more weight from the unit I’d recommend attacking those cartridge bearings. Pull out the seals (who needs seals?) and swap the bearing balls for ceramics. I haven’t checked but I’m thinking that’s 10-15 grams right there.

I actually came up with a design for an even lighter top cap with an integrated thru-axle style threaded shaft. Problem is my cost skyrockets and most don’t care about the small weight loss (~15 grams).

That Rose stem looks identical to the Kalloy Uno on my Trek (minus my hand polishing). I really want to produce a matching innicycle stem but my design goal for that stem would be retaining as much of the vintage style as possible versus lowest weight. If someone really wants low weight, they can use a full carbon bar/stem combo after all. And stems like the Kalloy Uno exist with which I'll never be able to match in terms of cost/weight. Customers who have asked want a more slim, vintage look and even for myself, a professed weight weenie, I’d be willing to trade some weight for a slimmer looking stem.

If I could convince Kalloy to produce polished stems with an inni logo I’d totally do it just to have them available. I’ve tried reaching out a few times but have never heard back.

[SABARRAS]

@joejack951

Great stuff, please keep going with the weight reductions. How about using "drillium" on some parts?

I discovered your product during my research for a future "restomod" Peugeot, Reynolds 753 project. The bike currently weighs 9.7 Kg and with the parts I chose, I can get it down to below 6.7Kg without spending too much (in my mind, less than €2000 isn't bad for a sub 7 Kg bike)

The Cinelli Grammo or a brand new Ibis titanium stem with a light alloy headset, is the target to beat. http://www.bikepro.com/products/stems/ibis.shtml or a total 290-300 grams for the system.

The recent weightloss has made your product the optimum solution, with the new minimum weight of 185 grams, you still have the lowest system weight with stems up to 110-115 grams. Any more grams you can remove will maintain this position as "the lightest" but with a larger choice of stems, unfortunately the better looking or older aheadset stems weigh around 130 grams and above.


This is the cheap 100 gram stem I mentioned in my previous posts: https://www.rosebikes.com/rose-osc-stem ... hape=black
I bought a 100mm one for a previous build and fitted titanium bolts to get the weight down to 90 grams. Have you thought about selling the same stem with Innicycle branding?

I've had my local frame builder replace the steerer tube with a non-threaded one. Very common and safe operation. Inexpensive as well, I paid £60.

Then I used a 1" threadless headset and a shim.

This works if it's not a unicrown fork. If it is, talk to your frame builder first.

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

My forks are chromed and constructed around a Fork lug with nice Peugeot lions engraved into each side.
What is the process?
Do they just heat up the crown brazing with a blowtorch and pull out the steerer tube?
Would rechroming be necessary in your opinion?

[SABARRAS]

@joejack951

Great stuff, please keep going with the weight reductions. How about using "drillium" on some parts?

I discovered your product during my research for a future "restomod" Peugeot, Reynolds 753 project. The bike currently weighs 9.7 Kg and with the parts I chose, I can get it down to below 6.7Kg without spending too much (in my mind, less than €2000 isn't bad for a sub 7 Kg bike)

The Cinelli Grammo or a brand new Ibis titanium stem with a light alloy headset, is the target to beat. http://www.bikepro.com/products/stems/ibis.shtml or a total 290-300 grams for the system.

The recent weightloss has made your product the optimum solution, with the new minimum weight of 185 grams, you still have the lowest system weight with stems up to 110-115 grams. Any more grams you can remove will maintain this position as "the lightest" but with a larger choice of stems, unfortunately the better looking or older aheadset stems weigh around 130 grams and above.


This is the cheap 100 gram stem I mentioned in my previous posts: https://www.rosebikes.com/rose-osc-stem ... hape=black
I bought a 100mm one for a previous build and fitted titanium bolts to get the weight down to 90 grams. Have you thought about selling the same stem with Innicycle branding?

Sounds like an awesome project. Definitely keep me posted!

Not sure there are any drillium opportunities but there are a few areas where additional weight can be removed but for cost reasons, I can’t justify going there. But, for someone looking to shave more weight from the unit I’d recommend attacking those cartridge bearings. Pull out the seals (who needs seals?) and swap the bearing balls for ceramics. I haven’t checked but I’m thinking that’s 10-15 grams right there.

I actually came up with a design for an even lighter top cap with an integrated thru-axle style threaded shaft. Problem is my cost skyrockets and most don’t care about the small weight loss (~15 grams).

That Rose stem looks identical to the Kalloy Uno on my Trek (minus my hand polishing). I really want to produce a matching innicycle stem but my design goal for that stem would be retaining as much of the vintage style as possible versus lowest weight. If someone really wants low weight, they can use a full carbon bar/stem combo after all. And stems like the Kalloy Uno exist with which I'll never be able to match in terms of cost/weight. Customers who have asked want a more slim, vintage look and even for myself, a professed weight weenie, I’d be willing to trade some weight for a slimmer looking stem.

If I could convince Kalloy to produce polished stems with an inni logo I’d totally do it just to have them available. I’ve tried reaching out a few times but have never heard back.

This Hylix stem looks like exactly the same model but in polished silver and a different logo. You just need to find the manufacturer (probably in Taiwan) and do a drop-shipping deal with your logo printed on the stems.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/121707923882?v ... Track=true



I'm trying to resolve the aesthetic issue of mixing old with new and finding an elegant, slim looking stem that won't result in a weight increase over a lightweight vintage quill stem alternative. I find the bulging bolt heads and cylinders bulky and ugly in most ahead stems.

There are 2 stems that kind of fit the bill in size but they look super modern, however the bolts have been nicely integrated like they used to do back in the quill stem days:

The now discontinued Profile Design Aeria (150 grams for 110mm)



The aluminium Pro Vibe stem (also 150 grams for 110mm)



The problem I have is the point of doing this project is to lose as much weight as possible, choosing those stems would be 50-60 grams of weight saving opportunity lost. I already decided against some chunky, superlight weight weenie brakes (Fibula/KCNC/Cane Creek...) in favour of some Dia-Compe BRS200 retro looking but super light calipers.
It would be great if there was a superlight stem that wouldn't look out of place on a restomod bike.

I'm an industrial designer, if you would like to collaborate on creating one let me know

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I was always a fan of this Crank Brothers mountain bike stem, the clamping system looks really clean. They should have streamlined the same design for road bikes.



Looks like they re-engineered it to a more simple set up

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ITM designed a series of carbon fibre stems with a similar wedge clamp system Uniko, One, Aries...











A variant appeared with bolts (not sure if before or after)



The Aries looks less massive and the bolts are mostly hidden but the steerer clamps aren't as clean as the Uniko version







The Unico weighed about 155 grams, The One weighed about 215 grams and teh Aries about 167 grams for a 120mm stem.

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"The Stem" made from magnesium - sub 100 grams and quite an elegant design





I don't understand why magnesium isn't used more in the bike industry, the technology has moved on (the alloy blends and anti-corrosion coatings)

American Classic's super light wheels are no longer available, the disk brake standard would make them the perfect material for rims.

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This one looks great! I had never heard of it before:

https://www.euroasiaimports.com/product ... p10971.htm



128 grams for the 90mm one in this link

http://shimahige.blog45.fc2.com/blog-entry-1326.html

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Mountain bikes were so innovative in the 90s

A slimmer version of this would look good on a road bike.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/303659433720

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@joejack951

I've found the supplier for that cheap lightweight stem, it's in Shenzhen, China, not Taiwan, they can instruct the factory to make polished versions with Innicycle logos on them.

https://nikolay.en.alibaba.com/search/p ... hText=stem
https://nikolay.en.alibaba.com/product/ ... 30892C0OmD


This UNO branded polished aluminium version looks similar but is slightly heavier due to less material being removed from the steerer clamp area, I bought one of these for another vintage bike project.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001137 ... hweb201603_

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Any details on the headset setup?

Sure!

Here's the headset by itself:



Cross section:



It's sort of a marriage between a threaded headset and a threadless adapter. The main design detail is that I've integrated the upper race into the quill/threadless portion by bonding two components together. The entire quill and upper race turn together when preloading the headset bearings and then the adjustment is locked out simultaneously with the quill locking into the steerer tube. Thus, no ugly lock nut and its unnecessary stack height plus you only need a 6mm hex key to adjust the preload.

The threadless portion is designed to allow trimming to whichever height you'd like, down to 38mm or full length at 90mm. I made custom spacers with an internal o-ring to keep them from rattling since the stem isn't applying any compression force. Sealed bearings and dust seals top and bottom to round things out.

Works with any 1"-24 threaded fork and headtube with ISO dimensions. JIS can be accommodated with minor adjustments.

Just a suggestion but perhaps you could make special SL versions of your product that replace the main threaded steel rod with a machined titanium pipe alternative.



https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 6591cLxm87