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SABARRAS
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:04 pm

by SABARRAS

I discovered that the ultralight shot peened black Uno stems that average around 100-110 grams have a slightly different design to the polished aluminium Uno stems which are around 40 grams heavier.

It looks like they are made in different factories, the lightweight version has two separate handlebar clamps

Image

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3289649 ... web201603_

Whereas the silver ones have a unified clamp

Image

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001 ... 6062%23177

If you are going to buy one of these bargain polished stems but want the lightweight version, it is best to choose with care and polish it up yourself.

SABARRAS
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:04 pm

by SABARRAS

https://www.rockfishbike.com/rockfish-c ... 94375.html

Rockfish bike are claiming 85 grams for their mini quill adapter, it looks the same as the one mentioned previously, I wonder why it weighs 25 grams less, aluminium bolts maybe?

Image

Here is a simpler version with a single draw bolt, they are claiming 100 grams and this one is tunable with a Ti-bolt.

Image

by Weenie


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joejack951
Posts: 1162
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE
Contact:

by joejack951

SABARRAS wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:41 pm
Rockfish bike are claiming 85 grams for their mini quill adapter, it looks the same as the one mentioned previously, I wonder why it weighs 25 grams less, aluminium bolts maybe?
I don't know about the weights but that first you posted isn't for adult/normal bikes with 22.2mm diameter quill stems. It's for kids' push bikes which use a smaller quill (20.8mm it seems).

I do want to talk threadless stem design with you just have been distracted by too many other things. I'd love to come up with someone sleek *and* lightweight. Some of the stems you posted sure are inspiring.

For what it's worth, I have the lighter two-piece bar clamp version of the Kalloy Uno on my Trek 660. I never did weigh it but it likely got quite a bit lighter after I buffed off all of the anodizing. It is a fat-tubed stem, though. Doesn't really match the slim lines of my frame but being polished hides some of that mismatch.

SABARRAS
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:04 pm

by SABARRAS

joejack951 wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:43 pm
SABARRAS wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:41 pm
Rockfish bike are claiming 85 grams for their mini quill adapter, it looks the same as the one mentioned previously, I wonder why it weighs 25 grams less, aluminium bolts maybe?
I don't know about the weights but that first you posted isn't for adult/normal bikes with 22.2mm diameter quill stems. It's for kids' push bikes which use a smaller quill (20.8mm it seems).

I do want to talk threadless stem design with you just have been distracted by too many other things. I'd love to come up with someone sleek *and* lightweight. Some of the stems you posted sure are inspiring.

For what it's worth, I have the lighter two-piece bar clamp version of the Kalloy Uno on my Trek 660. I never did weigh it but it likely got quite a bit lighter after I buffed off all of the anodizing. It is a fat-tubed stem, though. Doesn't really match the slim lines of my frame but being polished hides some of that mismatch.
I measured the top tube of my Peugeot, its about an inch in diameter, I think that any stem thicker than that starts looking chunky, even the Cinelli Grammo, is too thick.

Image

I sketched a road version of that Newmen stem, I think that it could be a 80-90 gram stem and as aero as they come.

SABARRAS
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:04 pm

by SABARRAS

@joejack951

There is one great selling point with your product, you can really slam that stem, I worked out that I can drop my bars another 20 mm approximately with your system.
It will still be 20 mm higher than my modern bike which was set up based on my bike fit, I'd have to get one of those extreme -35° stems to match it. :lol:

Image

joejack951
Posts: 1162
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE
Contact:

by joejack951

SABARRAS wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:21 pm
I measured the top tube of my Peugeot, its about an inch in diameter, I think that any stem thicker than that starts looking chunky, even the Cinelli Grammo, is too thick.

I sketched a road version of that Newmen stem, I think that it could be a 80-90 gram stem and as aero as they come.
I agree on the Grammo thickness, at least from that angle.

Send me a PM with that sketch if you don't mind.
SABARRAS wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:21 pm
There is one great selling point with your product, you can really slam that stem, I worked out that I can drop my bars another 20 mm approximately with your system.
It will still be 20 mm higher than my modern bike which was set up based on my bike fit, I'd have to get one of those extreme -35° stems to match it.
Low bars was definitely a goal. Vintage bars actually place the hoods quite a bit lower than the tops, in contrast to the horizontal results of using modern compact bars and levers. For my own fit, it was really exciting to be able to get rid of the lock nut, and quite a bit of thickness on the upper race as well by eliminating the wrench flats.

Of course, I regularly hear from those who want an even longer steerer portion than currently offered...

SABARRAS
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:04 pm

by SABARRAS

Kalloy Uno 100mm -17° with Ti bolts
Kalloy Uno 100mm -17° with Ti bolts
Total combined weight
Total combined weight
Tailored 31.8-26mm UD carbon fibre reducer
Tailored 31.8-26mm UD carbon fibre reducer
I just received my 100 mm, -17° UNO stem from Aliexpress, I am very impressed with the engineering and it's compact size, it still looks slightly too girthy for an 80s road bike but it's not shocking.

I grabbed my scales and some calipers then did some benchmarking.

Weight of the stem as sold with stainless steel bolts + captive washer: 106 grams*
Weight with titanium bolts: 95 grams

Weight of the Fouriers 31.8-26mm UD carbon fibre shim as sold: 24 grams
Weight after precision Dremel tailoring to fit: 9 grams

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3284037 ... 4c4df7bF63

The stem body with no bolts or clamps : 74 grams

The clamps weigh : 11 grams for both or 5.5 grams each

The 6 x Ti bolts weigh : 10 grams (6 x SS bolts = 19 grams)

The total stem weight with shim : 104 grams

The main stem body is 35mm in diameter and the internal diameter is 31mm giving a 2mm wall thickness. The clamping parts are slightly thicker at 2.8mm riducing to 1.75mm at the edges. There is absolutely no excess material. The bolts and clamps look far less bulky than the average ahead stem so it doesn't look too out of place on vintage bikes.

Amazing for the price. I fould some 3T Primo 199 Aluminium handlebars (42mm C-C) which only weigh 200 grams, I bought them second hand for just €20, I'm trying to do this build as cheaply as possible so I'm very pleased with these bargains.

*My kitchen scale only goes down to one decimal point so some measurements don't appear to add up correctly.
Last edited by SABARRAS on Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

SABARRAS
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:04 pm

by SABARRAS

I have continued my research on "Restomod" weight weeny vintage bikes.
It turns out that the Grammo is not the lightest quill stem, that title belongs to the WR Compositi carbon/aluminium stem.

Image

A 120mm stem weighs 180 grams

There are other artisanal titanium stems that are said to weigh less such as the Look by THT and Dean stems with weight claims below 160 grams.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-LOOK-THT ... 7675.l2557

https://sheldonbrown.com/rinard/weights.htm#stems

Many 90s titanium quill stem users complain of the flexibility of their handlebar set up, so there is a catch.

With modern technology, I suspect these issues can be overcome and a 150 gram quill stem would compete directly with the average threadless/ahead setup with the advantage of elegantly adjustable height.
A super light and elegant "restomod" quill stem could be an interesting niche to fill.

SABARRAS
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:04 pm

by SABARRAS

The Stronglight A9 alloy threaded 1" headset doesn't actually weigh 80 grams - perhaps older versions were that light.

The new ones weigh 89 grams, possibly due to using modern sealed bearing cartridges instead of ball races.

Ceramic bearings can be retrofitted but only provide a 4 gram weight saving: a pair weighs 35.9 grams compared to 40 grams for the standard steel set.
s-l1600 (13).jpg
So a minimum weight of 84.9 grams is possible.

schlafen
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:51 pm

by schlafen

SABARRAS wrote:The Stronglight A9 alloy threaded 1" headset doesn't actually weigh 80 grams - perhaps older versions were that light.

The new ones weigh 89 grams, possibly due to using modern sealed bearing cartridges instead of ball races.

Ceramic bearings can be retrofitted but only provide a 4 gram weight saving: a pair weighs 35.9 grams compared to 40 grams for the standard steel set.
s-l1600 (13).jpg
So a minimum weight of 84.9 grams is possible.
Old A9's used needle bearings, pretty sure they're heavier than latest iteration.

I have a Tange Seiki Falcon 1" threaded with sealed bearings and is around 90g.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk


SABARRAS
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:04 pm

by SABARRAS

schlafen wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:10 pm
SABARRAS wrote:The Stronglight A9 alloy threaded 1" headset doesn't actually weigh 80 grams - perhaps older versions were that light.

The new ones weigh 89 grams, possibly due to using modern sealed bearing cartridges instead of ball races.

Ceramic bearings can be retrofitted but only provide a 4 gram weight saving: a pair weighs 35.9 grams compared to 40 grams for the standard steel set.

s-l1600 (13).jpg

So a minimum weight of 84.9 grams is possible.
Old A9's used needle bearings, pretty sure they're heavier than latest iteration.

I have a Tange Seiki Falcon 1" threaded with sealed bearings and is around 90g.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
I found this comparison image - the old Stronglight headset with needle bearings (on the left) was closer to the claimed 80 grams

Image

SABARRAS
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:04 pm

by SABARRAS

The Stronglight A9 actually weighs 90 grams (or maybe just over 89.5?)
008.JPG

schlafen
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:51 pm

by schlafen

I put my A9 Delta on the scale and you may be right, 84g.

Not sure if massive differences between the A9 and A9 Delta.

For good measure I put a Rudelli needle bearing headset on the scale as well, 93g.

I have a Falcon headset fitted but not gonna take it off now to double check, so I googled the official weight and it's 93g.ImageImageImage

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk


SABARRAS
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:04 pm

by SABARRAS

I was going to get the Tange Falcon headset, it's a nice looking product but then I thought, a French bike should have a French headset.

I wonder how light old school threaded headsets could get if someone like Extralite made one.

SABARRAS
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:04 pm

by SABARRAS

My Aliexpress lightweight stem setup will only be a temporary solution I have decided. I am aiming for maximum weight reduction without losing the vintage riding experience and looks.

I worked out that I could lose a massive amount of weight from the original steering system by changing the forks to a 1" threadless set up.

This isn't my Peugeot below, I used the image to try out different colour schemes in Photoshop. It shouldn't be far from the end result but my frame is a size smaller and my bars are slammed with a lot more visible seatpost.
Perthus 753 small - SL - Version2 - Carbon front end.jpg

My Perthus currently has the following parts:

Handlebar: Cinelli Campione del Mondo 42cm = 333 grams
Stem: Cinelli XA 105 mm = 293 grams
Headset: Shimano 600 XE = 141 grams
Fork: Peugeot Chromed 753 tubing = 670-730 grams (I haven't weighed mine so I'm using typical 753 fork weights)

Total = 1437-1497 grams

My research lead me to this ultimate weight reduction combination that maintains the 80s-90s bike proportions and spirit.

Handlebar: Darimo Ellipse Road 42cm = 128 grams
Stem: Darimo 1X2 100 mm (3K)= 66 grams
Headset: FSA Orbit X 1" Threadless (Silver) - 82 grams + Expander/top cap, Cane creek eeNut topcap + expander - 10 grams = 92 grams
Fork: Look RSC-2 1" Threadless with 23cm steerer = c330 grams
1" - 1 1/8" steerer adapter (aluminium) = 13 grams

Total = 629 grams

Weight reduction of an estimated 808 - 868 grams

The RSC-2 fork looks quite spindly which won't look out of place with my steel frame, apparently it is a bit flexi under aggressive cornering etc. I can live with that. The Darimo stem is a similar shape to many quill stems, with the single clamp positioned under the bars, the rear clamp zone is a straight line with no bolt bumps in side view. The general compact and slimline volume won't look too big next to my 26mm diameter top tube. I will be fitting some other Matte 3K parts such as a new seatpost, carbon rail saddle and Stronglight Pulsion crankset. so it won't look too modern and out of place.

My build is going to be a slow transformation though, there are a few rare parts that I need to find, the main priority are Shimano Dura Ace 10 speed down tube shifters 7800/7900. I'm going to upgrade to Dura Ace 7900 derailleurs front and rear since they are among the lightest.
The wheelset will be Spado Bike Stiletto wheels, they will keep the period feel with a 1300g weight, other mods will be a titanium YBN 10 speed chain and OMNI racer or OARSM titanium cassette.

The current complete bike weight with cages and pedals is about 9.7 Kg but I estimate that it can end up below 6.3 Kg which will surprise many I think.

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by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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