Help me choose wheels.

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Vengerider2020
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:48 pm

by Vengerider2020

Hi, I am building up a new Sw Venge size 52 2020.

I am fortunate to be able to choose between Roval clx50, zipp 404nsw and Enve 5,6. All three roughly for the same price +-2500 euros.

I really have a hard time deciding what to go for.

I am racing in a pretty semliflat area. Races are around 100km long and don't include critracing or any terrain with long or steep climbs.

Rovals seems like a good allround and wheel while the Zipp are deeper and maybe abit more bling. Enves are superb but I am bit concered over the race that many describe them as a hars ride. But I am geting a really good deal on them.

Also taking advice on how to build my venge around 7kg with powermeter. Is it possible with Ultegra di2?

bm0p700f
in the industry
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by bm0p700f

If your racing in a flat area then how much your bike weighs is irrelevant.

jmfreeman535
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:12 pm

by jmfreeman535

I had the 404 Firecrest, and am currently running the CLX50's...and the CLX's are a much better wheel. They are light, stiff- yet have excellent ride quality- and build/maintain speed very well.

The 404's are heavy, flexed a lot more than I would have expected, were extremely harsh, and were super sketchy in corsswinds. I didn't like them, at all, and have no idea why they are so popular. The NSW's may be different, but that is my experince.

My vote is for the Rovals

alcatraz
Posts: 2574
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Pick a wheel that has a rim width at around the same width of your desired tire choice (real tire width, not what it's sold as).

Afterwards pick a depth that suits your riding speed. If you average 30km/h stay around 40mm, if you average ~40km/h you can benefit from 60mm and so on.

sychen
Posts: 711
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:06 pm

by sychen

Do you care about weight?
If yes.. The Rovals
If no.. Enve 5.6 for a bit more aero.

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nycebo
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:04 pm
Location: New York, NY

by nycebo

jmfreeman535 wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:56 am
The 404's are heavy, flexed a lot more than I would have expected, were extremely harsh, and were super sketchy in corsswinds. I didn't like them, at all, and have no idea why they are so popular.
What made you think they flexed? Brake rub? Generally flexible wheels are comfortable. I'm wondering if the overly stiff wheel rubbed against your brake pads and made you think that they where flexing when in fact the rub is precisely because they are inflexible and cantering over around your wheel axle...not because of wheel lack of rigidity.

PS...all the wheel options are excellent. I have the Enves and they definitely run hard and stiff on the road...a bit too my chagrin. If I could do it again, I'd do they Zipp Nsw.

moock
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:53 pm

by moock

Why not buy Fulcrum Speed55? Cheaper. Lighter. Cup&Cone. Ultra Stiff. Aero is okay.

But if I had only the choice of the three mentioned, I`d take the Rovals... I only hear bad things about Zipp ( beeing flexy af. shite hubs) and Enve about poor quality in general

CAAD8FRED
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:52 pm

by CAAD8FRED

moock wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:37 pm
Why not buy Fulcrum Speed55? Cheaper. Lighter. Cup&Cone. Ultra Stiff. Aero is okay.

But if I had only the choice of the three mentioned, I`d take the Rovals... I only hear bad things about Zipp ( beeing flexy af. shite hubs) and Enve about poor quality in general
Rohan Dennis would like to have a word

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Noctiluxx
Posts: 916
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

No experience with the Rovals. I have however owned both Enve 3.4/4.5 and Zipp 303 FC and 404 NSW's. Both brands make excellent wheels but massively overpriced for their respective performance. My less marketed Bora Ultra 50's (have two sets) are superior when it comes to stiffness, crosswind resistance, and liveliness. If I was buying wheels today above 50mm depth, the new Campy WTO 60 would be my first choice.
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
2019 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Chameleon Blue)
2019 Cervelo R5 Disk (Team Sunweb)
2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 0

moock
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:53 pm

by moock

CAAD8FRED wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:22 pm
moock wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:37 pm
Why not buy Fulcrum Speed55? Cheaper. Lighter. Cup&Cone. Ultra Stiff. Aero is okay.

But if I had only the choice of the three mentioned, I`d take the Rovals... I only hear bad things about Zipp ( beeing flexy af. shite hubs) and Enve about poor quality in general
Rohan Dennis would like to have a word
who is dis

jmfreeman535
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:12 pm

by jmfreeman535

[/quote]

What made you think they flexed? Brake rub? Generally flexible wheels are comfortable. I'm wondering if the overly stiff wheel rubbed against your brake pads and made you think that they where flexing when in fact the rub is precisely because they are inflexible and cantering over around your wheel axle...not because of wheel lack of rigidity.

PS...all the wheel options are excellent. I have the Enves and they definitely run hard and stiff on the road...a bit too my chagrin. If I could do it again, I'd do they Zipp Nsw.
[/quote]

It was definitely flex. I'd feel it under hard acceleration, high speed cornering, and on steep climbs. Calling it mush would be extreme...but not by much. I felt like I was constantly fighting the wheels.

During steady efforts, on the flats, they were decent wheels - as you'd expect for a 58mm rim - but everywhere else, I was expecting better. Especially given the premium pricetag. And, honestly, I only bought them for the brake track, since it was supposed to be the best. But, now I'm on discs, so that was no longer a factor.

Vengerider2020
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:48 pm

by Vengerider2020

Thank you for all your answers.
I have been gliding towards the rovals. I used to ride zipp 404 fc on ny old venge. I weigh 67 kg and I can't honestly say that flex was a big issue but they lacked abit in sprinty situations before they came a live. So I guess i am looking for abit more "bam bam".
Why not Bora? Well I have no LBS close by Who provide and I like to by local due to the fact that I want to see bike shops survive the internet.
When it comes to weight it's not the highest priority because then I would obviously have chosen the Tarmac instead. But it sure does not hurt having a light bike.

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nycebo
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:04 pm
Location: New York, NY

by nycebo

jmfreeman535 wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:57 pm

It was definitely flex. I'd feel it under hard acceleration, high speed cornering, and on steep climbs. Calling it mush would be extreme...but not by much. I felt like I was constantly fighting the wheels.
Here we go again. The incredulous wheel stiffness conversation and the delusion of "feel". It is a 2-3 inch wheel; you ain't flexing the carbon.

Read this article and understand that you're conflating the issue.

https://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Debunki ... _3449.html

Quoted: The biggest problem with the wheel stiffness discussion is that the term is thrown around far too much and without nearly enough context. What kind of stiffness are you talking about – in what plane? What part of the wheel is too stiff (or not stiff enough) – the spokes, the rim, or the hub? And what design attribute of that particular part is causing the issue?

Now, if we're talking value for money, then that's a totally different can of worms.

jmfreeman535
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:12 pm

by jmfreeman535

nycebo wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:26 am
jmfreeman535 wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:57 pm

It was definitely flex. I'd feel it under hard acceleration, high speed cornering, and on steep climbs. Calling it mush would be extreme...but not by much. I felt like I was constantly fighting the wheels.
Here we go again. The incredulous wheel stiffness conversation and the delusion of "feel". It is a 2-3 inch wheel; you ain't flexing the carbon.

Read this article and understand that you're conflating the issue.

https://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Debunki ... _3449.html

Quoted: The biggest problem with the wheel stiffness discussion is that the term is thrown around far too much and without nearly enough context. What kind of stiffness are you talking about – in what plane? What part of the wheel is too stiff (or not stiff enough) – the spokes, the rim, or the hub? And what design attribute of that particular part is causing the issue?

Now, if we're talking value for money, then that's a totally different can of worms.
Since you're so well versed in the phsysics behind wheel stiffness, then you should have realized that everything that I listed as my reasoning for saying that they where flexible is determined by laterial stiffness (or lack-there-of, in this case). The rim itself may not beflexing, but laterial flex, is still flex...there is nothing delusion about that.

You should also know that flexible wheels, do not necessarily mean comfortalbe wheels. It is very possible to be stiff in one plane (radial), and not in the other (laterial).
Roval's on the other hand, are very stiff laterial, and not-quite-as stiff radially...which I really like.

Clevertraining
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:03 pm

by Clevertraining

I was in the same situation when I had to decide for my Venge S-works built. I was going for the CLX50 clincher-disc because of they are today with best performance/weight/price ratio at 1.406g with tape+valves @ 2.200,- Euros. I have it now for one season on my Venge and no issues with stiffness. Good do-it-everything wheels for flat and mountains, running with original tapes and Schwalbe ProOnes 25 TL and 30ml milk.

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