Sigeyi Axo Power Meter Spider

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

TribesMan
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:51 pm

by TribesMan

Eterna7m wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:44 pm
That doesn't sound too good.
And how do you use the suito nowadays?
I noticed the power from the suito being slight different that the data I get from my Magene crank but I don't really trust that one too much anyway but after reading your post I think it may be the other way around...
Well the accuracy of the unit was not the only issue with my Suito, it also vibrated at high speed, and made some weird creaking noises once it warmed up, so I sent it back a few days ago...

I suggest you to make a similar comparison as I did.
A few sets of intervals at different power, and different flywheel speeds.

So lets say 100, 150, 200, 250, 300, 350, 400, 450W... for 30s each.
You do that at ~30kph... then repeat the same intervals at 10-15kph, and again at 40-50kph.

If you keep the cadence at 90RPM in all cases and your power output measured by Magene and Suito changes depending on the speed, you can be almost 100% sure it is not the power meter which is the issue.

User avatar
robbosmans
Moderator
Posts: 2780
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:40 pm
Location: Central Belgium
Contact:

by robbosmans

My Suito is fine, no creaking and accurate when I compared it with assioma’s and my Xcadey spider.

Smart trainers are weird products, you can find horror stories about all of them

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



freepk
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:31 pm

by freepk

@tireheb Sigeyi PM spider has all common DM interfaces, Quarq can be used only with Quard cranks, you cant just buy Quarq PM, you have to buy Quarq cranks too. This can be sales limiting factor?

cberg
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:30 am

by cberg

freepk wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:14 am
@tireheb Sigeyi PM spider has all common DM interfaces, Quarq can be used only with Quard cranks, you cant just buy Quarq PM, you have to buy Quarq cranks too. This can be sales limiting factor?
Adding to this, with Quarq you pretty much lock yourself to using DUB bottom brackets

RDY
Posts: 2358
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

cberg wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:30 am
freepk wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:14 am
@tireheb Sigeyi PM spider has all common DM interfaces, Quarq can be used only with Quard cranks, you cant just buy Quarq PM, you have to buy Quarq cranks too. This can be sales limiting factor?
Adding to this, with Quarq you pretty much lock yourself to using DUB bottom brackets
Nope. GXP is fine either with DFour or DZero .. They're labelled DUB, but they're not DUB. They're agnostic 8 bolt AXS. Either GXP or DUB 8 bolt AXS cranks fit them.

But frankly the Sigeyis are a better option now as arguably more accurate since fixes, lighter, and cheaper in some markets.

freepk
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:31 pm

by freepk

@RDY, yes, Sigeyi is lighter, but in my case 5arm 110bcd 8bolt AXO is about 115 gramm vs DZero 125 gramm.

I order Sigeyi AXO first in terms of weight, but later reorder Quarq DZero )

Can you please give link to information about comparing Quarq vs Sigeyi accuracy?

humanstrobe
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:34 pm

by humanstrobe

IMG_PixelCam_13122021_230827.jpg
After GPLamas latest update I've taken a punt on an Axo unit.

Bargain £200 that suits me with cranks and chainrings I had as spares, GXP 3 bolt fitting to Shimano 110bcd rings.

Was able to connect easily enough on my Xiaomi phone but the firmware update failed repeatedly.

Quick email from the Sigeyi UK store support suggested trying iOS which worked fine.
Updated successfully to firmware 4.0.15.

Hardware version shows V1 which might be a concern, not sure if the later hardware improved things or it is all firmware based for improvements?

Don't have a reliable enough power source (it's replacing a power2max) to compare it to but should be able to get a rough idea from my Kinetic R1.

Picture attached shows it's a weird mongrel setup, might need to sand off sram logos and remove the sigeyi sticker...

Oh and as pictured it's 715g. 300g better than the P2Max rival I had!

oldmac
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:49 am

by oldmac

humanstrobe wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:42 pm
IMG_PixelCam_13122021_230827.jpg

After GPLamas latest update I've taken a punt on an Axo unit.

Bargain £200 that suits me with cranks and chainrings I had as spares, GXP 3 bolt fitting to Shimano 110bcd rings.

Was able to connect easily enough on my Xiaomi phone but the firmware update failed repeatedly.

Quick email from the Sigeyi UK store support suggested trying iOS which worked fine.
Updated successfully to firmware 4.0.15.

Hardware version shows V1 which might be a concern, not sure if the later hardware improved things or it is all firmware based for improvements?

Don't have a reliable enough power source (it's replacing a power2max) to compare it to but should be able to get a rough idea from my Kinetic R1.

Picture attached shows it's a weird mongrel setup, might need to sand off sram logos and remove the sigeyi sticker...

Oh and as pictured it's 715g. 300g better than the P2Max rival I had!
Your AXO is very old version model, the front cover is different from the current version. Did you buy a second hand?

humanstrobe
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:34 pm

by humanstrobe

oldmac wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:42 am


Your AXO is very old version model, the front cover is different from the current version. Did you buy a second hand?
It was new from onecyclesport in the UK. Explains the cheaper price as well. Didn't realise that from the photos.

How old is it?
I've emailed sigeyi UK again to see if it will be supported with future firmware.

How much better is the new hardware compared to this?

Power looks fairly stable after my first ride but it looks to be over reading by a bit, especially on shorter sprint efforts. Will try and borrow assiomas to test.

freepk
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:31 pm

by freepk

Image
Image

tireheb
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:05 pm

by tireheb

RDY wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:59 am
cberg wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:30 am
freepk wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:14 am
@tireheb Sigeyi PM spider has all common DM interfaces, Quarq can be used only with Quard cranks, you cant just buy Quarq PM, you have to buy Quarq cranks too. This can be sales limiting factor?
Adding to this, with Quarq you pretty much lock yourself to using DUB bottom brackets
Nope. GXP is fine either with DFour or DZero .. They're labelled DUB, but they're not DUB. They're agnostic 8 bolt AXS. Either GXP or DUB 8 bolt AXS cranks fit them.

But frankly the Sigeyis are a better option now as arguably more accurate since fixes, lighter, and cheaper in some markets.
a note kinda relted to this (future compatibility) to anyone looking among sigeyi pm's. i bought one through ali. it was a DUB crankset combo. (cranks and chainrings are zrace, cranks are rotor clones, they arent the lightest but more like mid weight-550gr just the cranks, but the combo was like 40 bucks more than just the pm, so very tempting, even came with a BB).

anyway, i bought this combo and its a weird combination cause cranks are DUB, but spider uses 3 bolt interface, why weird?, cause sram cranks that use 3 bolt interface are usually GxP or BB30 spindle, and the ones that use DUB spindle use the 8 bolt interface. so if later you want to upgrade cranks you need to either change the supplied DUB BB and get a BB30 or GxP one and get old sram cranks with 3 bolt interface, or mantain your DUB BB and get a new PM. totally sucks. i bought fast and didnt really realize it. i just saw the whole pack was dub and assumed i was on the latest ship. nope, old 3 bolt interface. no sense.

kode54
Posts: 3750
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

My direct mount Sigeyi spider mount is losing some of its black anodized coating/black paint. Not sure if others are experiencing similar...but like the picture just above where the direct mount area looks liks bubbling/coating is coming off. Mine chipped off so silver/aluminum is showing.
- Factor Ostro VAM Disc
- Factor LS Disc
- Specialized Aethos Disc
- Sturdy Ti Allroad Disc
- Guru Praemio R Disc

floriansantana
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:57 pm

by floriansantana

I just received my AXO spider for Cannondale Hollowgram cranks two days ago.

I ordered Rotor NoQ Aero rings for it. I just wanted to mount the PM, but the problem is, that the aero rings and the crankarm seems to be not compatible as the crankarm touches the chainring (see red area on the pic below) and therefor won’t sit level on the spider which causes the chain rings to run out of direction when mounted.

Has anyone else experienced something like this before?
Attachments
9B6E4C85-43F3-4C4E-B072-03087872BDCF.jpeg
Cannondale SuperSix Evo Disc
Cannondale SystemSix HiMod Disc
@floriansantana

scoobydrew
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:49 am

by scoobydrew

Does anyone know if the Sigeyi AXO Power Meter SRAM 8 bolt power meter (https://www.sigeyishop.com/product/axo- ... red-force/) is compatible with GXP cranks?

My cranks are Red22 (11 speed) Quarq ready cranks with the 8 bolts. The linked Sigeyi product page states it's compatible with this crank ("SRAM 11S PowerReady Red22") but also DUB cranks. I'm skeptical because SRAM/Quarq states you cannot use a SRAM DZero DUB spider on a GXP crank. Feel free to correct me, but I believe this might be due to chainline differences but also the fact that the GXP crankarm will interfere with the cutout for the crank arm on the DZero DUB spider.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



davidalone
Posts: 622
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:27 pm

by davidalone

TribesMan wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:19 pm
Maddie wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:56 am
Indeed. The Direto is a perfect example for sending out products to reviewers with adapted firmware or hardware that is not publically available. I have one and my experience is pretty different to all the positive reviews...
It is not very good practice to compare any real power meter to a trainer, which does not have a real power meter inside.
All trainers that are calibrated by "spin down" procedure are only "power estimators".
There is no power measurement going inside there.
There is a lot of factors that influence power estimation given by a trainer, like ambient temperature, warmup time of the trainer, flywheel speed, power...

Elite is known to do some "optimization" of firmware, to improve the accuracy of their trainers, which are usually very far off from the promised +-2% from the factory.
I own a Suito and when I compared it to my Assiomas I found out it is extremely inaccurate.
Just to be clear, when I compared Assiomas to Wahoo Kickr, they were spot on +-1%.

When I presented my findings to Elite, they offered me to "adjust" the trainer, by me performing some specific intervals of riding at set intensity levels and flywheel speeds. And recording power from Suito and Assiomas at the same time.
After sending them the data, I got a .json file, which I uploaded to my trainer.
It improved things in some areas, and made it worse in others.

After repeating this procedure twice and when things were clearly not improving, I performed my test ride again...
It included 4 sets of intervals from 100-600W at different flywheel speeds (25, 15, 45 and 35kph).

This is the comparison of Suito vs Assioma pedals (after firmware adjustment by Elite):

https://zwiftpower.com/analysis.php?set_id=184839

And for more clear representation I also made a comparison in table, to show how flywheel speed influences the accuracy of the Suito.

SuitovsAssioma.png

Suito can read up to 15% too low at slow flywheel speeds and up to 15% too high at high flywheel speeds.
It is somewhat "ok" around 30kph and up to 250W... but everywhere else it is way off.
Basically, the Suito is more like randon number generator than anything else.

So it is very unfair to compare any real strain gauge based power meter to any trainer without prior validation of the trainer with some other device.
Ecxept maybe Tacx Neo or Wahoo Kickr, those two I think are very accurate and don't require any spin down anyway.
The Elite Drivo and Direto do have a real power meter though. the Suito does not, but the OTS is supposedly supposed to be very accurate.

Post Reply