Pinarello F12.

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
tabl10s
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:40 am

by tabl10s

I just saw my first one in-person and I now want one.
Attachments
20191106_163500.jpg
| 2016 Rca: 11.07lbs/5.048kg...😭 | 2015 Pinarello F8: 13.04lbs/5.915kg...😩 | 2018 S-Works SL6: 12.04/5.625kg... πŸ˜₯|2018 S-Works SL6 UL: 11.04/5.007kg... :cry:

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 2993
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

For the frame kit price alone, i can't help but think - WTF!
Made in Asia, paint and polish made in Italy.
The price tend to be absurd!!!
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

by Weenie


3Pio
Posts: 1282
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

wheelsONfire wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:08 am
For the frame kit price alone, i can't help but think - WTF!
Made in Asia, paint and polish made in Italy.
The price tend to be absurd!!!

And in same time cant find a bike with more Kitsch design available to buy today... Someting like BMW X6 (which to me show owner have a lot of money, but no taste or understunding..)

Hope the OP is fine with this honest opinion (personal anyway), but i would really feel sorry if i dont try my best to stop fellow from our forum to spend such amount of money for something like Pinarello Dogma F12 while in same time frameset like Sarto Dinamica waiting for less money than Dogma F12 ( and is Made in Italy, Custom Paint, Custom Geometry, Really nice looker and i probably very nice ride as well)

https://www.sartobikes.com/it/products/ ... a_172.html

3Pio
Posts: 1282
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

3Pio wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:40 am
wheelsONfire wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:08 am
For the frame kit price alone, i can't help but think - WTF!
Made in Asia, paint and polish made in Italy.
The price tend to be absurd!!!

And in same time cant find a bike with more Kitsch design available to buy today... Someting like BMW X6 (which to me show owner have a lot of money, but no taste or understunding..)

Hope the OP is fine with this honest opinion (personal anyway), but i would really feel sorry if i dont try my best to stop fellow from our forum to spend such amount of money for something like Pinarello Dogma F12 while in same time frameset like Sarto Dinamica waiting for less money than Dogma F12 ( and is Made in Italy, Custom Paint, Custom Geometry, Lighter, Really nice looker and i probably very nice ride as well)

https://www.sartobikes.com/it/products/ ... a_172.html

User avatar
Kayrehn
Posts: 1286
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:06 pm

by Kayrehn

^ +100. I used to feel meh about the F8 and F10, but this one, this is truly hideous with not a single straight tube to be seen on the frame (yes the downtube too as a chunk has been gorged out of it). I used to sneer at their silly marketing shit about the curves adding x% stiffness especially after they removed it in the F8, and now it's back, maybe now it's to try look freaky to stand out. End of discussion. Again.

hannawald
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by hannawald

If you like it and have sources for it, go for it:) it is definitely in superbike category, very aero but ok for everything, not the lightest and most comfortable. But it has its own distinctive style, to me it looks really good, expensive, but the same could be said about all bikes today incl. my Bianchi Oltre. I could have bought Canyon instead - nice and perfectly functional but for some irrational reason i wanted Bianchi:)

pmprego
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

wheelsONfire wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:08 am
For the frame kit price alone, i can't help but think - WTF!
Made in Asia, paint and polish made in Italy.
The price tend to be absurd!!!
If you want to go as fast as possible, It's probably the best bike there is if money is no object. That's also period.

I can't afford not even close. But that doesn't stop me seeing the obvious. As for the very high price, one reason is that they use a very expensive type of carbon based on toraya 1100. Very few bikes if any use that on the frame. Makes it more harsh but again the goal here is to go as fast as possible.

pmprego
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

tabl10s wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:02 am
I just saw my first one in-person and I now want one.
If money was no object I would very gladly accept it as well.

demoCRIT
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:04 pm

by demoCRIT

and they still come with rim brakes!
Too bad they cost a lot :(

3Pio
Posts: 1282
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

pmprego wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:38 am
wheelsONfire wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:08 am
For the frame kit price alone, i can't help but think - WTF!
Made in Asia, paint and polish made in Italy.
The price tend to be absurd!!!
If you want to go as fast as possible, It's probably the best bike there is if money is no object. That's also period.

I can't afford not even close. But that doesn't stop me seeing the obvious. As for the very high price, one reason is that they use a very expensive type of carbon based on toraya 1100. Very few bikes if any use that on the frame. Makes it more harsh but again the goal here is to go as fast as possible.
What is the point of using "ultra expensive T1100" vs other carbon? To keep stifness for less weight then cheaper options.. Then if Pinarello used the most expensice carbon which sould be lightest possible and stiff, than with this weight this frameset is seriosly underengineered.. So seem that people have to pay for ultra expensive carbon (which is not that expensive and rare), to make up for lack of engineering skills...

But let's get back on T1100 how rare it is and how expensive it is:


Look what i found for u: T1100 Frame for 470 USD.. If u search there is plenty of them using T1100... Even that is just marketing.....

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000078 ... b201603_52

Or this ones:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3285201 ... b201603_52

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3302135 ... b201603_52

And While we are at carbon interesting discussion here: viewtopic.php?t=126139


Now let's open our minds and to start thinking clear and not beeing brainwashed by marketing... If u want something Boutique, expensive, sofisticated at least give ur money to someone who is really enthusiastic about that, who really care and will give u special experience and attention (i allready mentioned Sarto or even Festka...).. But it really doesnt make sense to pay 10 times more expensive Chinese Frameset than Chinese Framesets options u can have this days with same quality....

demoCRIT
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:04 pm

by demoCRIT

this could probably be said about S-Works vs PRO

pmprego
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

3Pio wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:32 am
pmprego wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:38 am
wheelsONfire wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:08 am
For the frame kit price alone, i can't help but think - WTF!
Made in Asia, paint and polish made in Italy.
The price tend to be absurd!!!
If you want to go as fast as possible, It's probably the best bike there is if money is no object. That's also period.

I can't afford not even close. But that doesn't stop me seeing the obvious. As for the very high price, one reason is that they use a very expensive type of carbon based on toraya 1100. Very few bikes if any use that on the frame. Makes it more harsh but again the goal here is to go as fast as possible.
What is the point of using "ultra expensive T1100" vs other carbon? To keep stifness for less weight then cheaper options.. Then if Pinarello used the most expensice carbon which sould be lightest possible and stiff, than with this weight this frameset is seriosly underengineered.. So seem that people have to pay for ultra expensive carbon (which is not that expensive and rare), to make up for lack of engineering skills...

But let's get back on T1100 how rare it is and how expensive it is:


Look what i found for u: T1100 Frame for 470 USD.. If u search there is plenty of them using T1100... Even that is just marketing.....

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000078 ... b201603_52

Or this ones:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3285201 ... b201603_52

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3302135 ... b201603_52

And While we are at carbon interesting discussion here: viewtopic.php?t=126139


Now let's open our minds and to start thinking clear and not beeing brainwashed by marketing... If u want something Boutique, expensive, sofisticated at least give ur money to someone who is really enthusiastic about that, who really care and will give u special experience and attention (i allready mentioned Sarto or even Festka...).. But it really doesnt make sense to pay 10 times more expensive Chinese Frameset than Chinese Framesets options u can have this days with same quality....
So you're saying that the pro team with the most budget is paying extra just for the sake of paying extra. Remember that those are for profit organizations. If the ones who have the most to gain and profit use something (versus some Chinese alternative) they most have some rational. Never forget that. And don't bring the conspiracy theory. People have too much to worry to be going after conspiracies.

As for the price, and as it was also said by someone else, you might say that you think it's expensive and you wouldn't buy one. You cannot say or criticize someone that does. That's what free choice is all about. My choice doesn't impact yours.

tabl10s
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:40 am

by tabl10s

hannawald wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:57 am
If you like it and have sources for it, go for it:) it is definitely in superbike category, very aero but ok for everything, not the lightest and most comfortable. But it has its own distinctive style, to me it looks really good, expensive, but the same could be said about all bikes today incl. my Bianchi Oltre. I could have bought Canyon instead - nice and perfectly functional but for some irrational reason i wanted Bianchi:)
It was weighed before the owner(Master's rider)returned and it came in@17+ pounds. His trade-in was a 2018 Madone which he said was faster in a straight line.
| 2016 Rca: 11.07lbs/5.048kg...😭 | 2015 Pinarello F8: 13.04lbs/5.915kg...😩 | 2018 S-Works SL6: 12.04/5.625kg... πŸ˜₯|2018 S-Works SL6 UL: 11.04/5.007kg... :cry:

rollinslow
Posts: 127
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:25 am

by rollinslow

I can't get over how these Pinarello frames go on deep sale every year. It tells you the cost to manufacture is a fraction of what you a paying for. Just look at competitivecyclist.com. Agree with the look being super cool though.

by Weenie


demoCRIT
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:04 pm

by demoCRIT

rollinslow wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:25 pm
I can't get over how these Pinarello frames go on deep sale every year. It tells you the cost to manufacture is a fraction of what you a paying for. Just look at competitivecyclist.com. Agree with the look being super cool though.
this must be a US thing, hard to get a real bargain for one in EU

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post