Help me Find an Endurance Bike for next Spring.

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Nikoras
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:59 am

by Nikoras

Alexbn921 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:43 am
The Roubaix feels like a race bike, but with all day comfort.
This kind of distills what I'm looking for. I want to ride for 6-8 hours without feeling like death. I also want something that excites when I put in a good effort.

TheRich
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

Mr.Gib wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:47 am
My vote is for anything that doesn't have a mechanical suspension gimmic. Sooner or later it will piss you off. Just look at what has come and gone in road frames. If you were stuck on 25 or 28mm tires on horrible surface then OK, it's worth a gamble. But with room for 30 - 32 tires in a primarily road application, all you get with a suspension system is extra weight and some unknown risk of failure.

I have a Synapse which I use as a fender bike. It does everything well. My wife has a Focus Paralane for wet road duties. It's a good bike if you are limited to one bike only. Room for 36mm tires. Very tall front end which seems like it would suit you.
My Synapse was more harsh yet more flexy than my Boone. Because that's the compromise you make for an extra degree of frame compliance.

Everything has a risk of failure, btw....like the wallowing stays of your Synapse.

85L
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:05 pm

by 85L

I rode on Synapse but it didn't resist to the new Focus paralane.

I love it's capacity to change my (and it's) mindset :
-when I ride Paris-Roubaix, welcome to alloy wheels with 28mm vittoria control tires or 32mm compass stampede pass (depending on my back problems). When I first ride Paris-Roubaix I double bartape the handlebars and mounted a brooks cambium saddle. Now I'm more resistant to cobbles shaking.
-when I ride ironman, I stich aerobars with sram etap blips to drive the transmission from my aero position and my 60-88mm wheelset combo
-when I ride gravel, go back to alloy wheels with up to 35mm tires (hutchinson overide - and I think 38mm would pass).
-when in winter, I mount the fenders provided with the bike

But most of the time the 50mm deep wheels with 25-28mm tires are on.

This bike do it all, as I do :) Just have to play with parts and wheels

g32ecs
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:50 am

by g32ecs

Nikoras wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:26 am
Alexbn921 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:43 am
The Roubaix feels like a race bike, but with all day comfort.
This kind of distills what I'm looking for. I want to ride for 6-8 hours without feeling like death. I also want something that excites when I put in a good effort.
You cant have it all.

Looking at your budget consider custom. It'll be hard to get what you want but the builder can at least accomodate to the ride feel by tweaking geometry and tire size.

You might come up short for parts but you got a good base with a frame that'll make you happy. Just save up a bit more.

Nikoras
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:59 am

by Nikoras

g32ecs wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:06 pm
Nikoras wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:26 am
Alexbn921 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:43 am
The Roubaix feels like a race bike, but with all day comfort.
This kind of distills what I'm looking for. I want to ride for 6-8 hours without feeling like death. I also want something that excites when I put in a good effort.
You cant have it all.

Looking at your budget consider custom. It'll be hard to get what you want but the builder can at least accomodate to the ride feel by tweaking geometry and tire size.

You might come up short for parts but you got a good base with a frame that'll make you happy. Just save up a bit more.
I still think the bmc roadmachine and canyon endurace come close, as their geometry is really quite close to their teammachine/ultimate counter parts. Not sure if I trust my own mechanical skills to build a custom bike.

robertbb
Posts: 1320
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

The geometry of the Ultimate vs the Endurace aint all that close. There's a considerably higher stack and shorter reach on the Endurace... and don't forget to look at the ST/HT angles because that also changes things a lot (up to 1cm per degree is what I've read)

Nikoras
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:59 am

by Nikoras

robertbb wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:54 am
The geometry of the Ultimate vs the Endurace aint all that close. There's a considerably higher stack and shorter reach on the Endurace... and don't forget to look at the ST/HT angles because that also changes things a lot (up to 1cm per degree is what I've read)
I'm gonna have to disagree here. The ST/HT angle is .3 degrees different. Reach is 9mm, stack is 11mm. Those aren't massive changes, especially considering I would want to swap out a longer stem(cockpit) to begin with at a cm longer.

The BMC roadmachine which is their "endurance" bike actually has a 4mm lower stack than the ultimate and only a 3mm shorter reach. There aren't any massive changes here. massive would be the roubaix which has a ~40mm higher stack than the ultimate/roadmachine, and people have still described that as "racey"

robertbb
Posts: 1320
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Nikoras wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:59 am
robertbb wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:54 am
The geometry of the Ultimate vs the Endurace aint all that close. There's a considerably higher stack and shorter reach on the Endurace... and don't forget to look at the ST/HT angles because that also changes things a lot (up to 1cm per degree is what I've read)
I'm gonna have to disagree here. The ST/HT angle is .3 degrees different. Reach is 9mm, stack is 11mm. Those aren't massive changes, especially considering I would want to swap out a longer stem(cockpit) to begin with at a cm longer.
if reach diff 9mm, stack diff is 11mm it averages out to 10mm (1cm) on the dot. 1cm closer and 1cm higher is a fair change.

The seat tube angles are about the same, but the head tube angles are quite different: 72.3 degrees on the ultimate and 71.6 degrees on the endurace. Which further reduces the reach by about 7mm.

So 1.7cm shorter reach, 1cm higher stack. Both on a size S.

If that's not a significant change to rider position and comfort, then why would Canyon bother (in the days of manufacturers reducing their inventory and range...)?

(I have no idea what the BMC has to do with anything here. Different companies have different geometries).
Last edited by robertbb on Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mr.Gib
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Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

TheRich wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:56 am
My Synapse was more harsh yet more flexy than my Boone. Because that's the compromise you make for an extra degree of frame compliance.
Everything has a risk of failure, btw....like the wallowing stays of your Synapse.
What vintage Synapse? 2018 and later is a different frame in the stiffness department. Mine (2018) doesn't feel more flexible then my Boone (same wheels/tires for comparison). As to harshness, the Boone is easy on the ass, but through the pedals and handlebar, I like the Synapse more.

"Stays" failing? Is that a thing?
:noidea:
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

Nikoras
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:59 am

by Nikoras

robertbb wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:01 am
Nikoras wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:59 am
robertbb wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:54 am
The geometry of the Ultimate vs the Endurace aint all that close. There's a considerably higher stack and shorter reach on the Endurace... and don't forget to look at the ST/HT angles because that also changes things a lot (up to 1cm per degree is what I've read)
I'm gonna have to disagree here. The ST/HT angle is .3 degrees different. Reach is 9mm, stack is 11mm. Those aren't massive changes, especially considering I would want to swap out a longer stem(cockpit) to begin with at a cm longer.
if reach diff 9mm, stack diff is 11mm it averages out to 10mm (1cm) on the dot. 1cm closer and 1cm higher is a fair change.

The seat tube angles are about the same, but the head tube angles are quite different: 72.3 degrees on the ultimate and 71.6 degrees on the endurace. Which further reduces the reach by about 7mm.

So 1.7cm shorter reach, 1cm higher stack. Both on a size S.

If that's not a significant change to rider position and comfort, then why would Canyon bother (in the days of manufacturers reducing their inventory and range...)?

(I have no idea what the BMC has to do with anything here. Different companies have different geometries).
Hmm geometry geeks and canyons website has the headtube angle on the ultimate @ 72.3 degrees 72 degrees on the endurace. I brought up the roadmachine to show that if that is "upright" as well, but the numbers align with the ultimate closer than something like the domane/synapse/roubaix which I do think has significantly different (more upright) geometry.

As for why Canyon even bothers making the Endurace if the geometry isn't a major change? I would say there's much more to the components that make the difference and the reason I am looking at the Endurace; Wider tire clearence (and wider tires), longer thinner chainstays, different seatpost for taking more of the roadbuzz out. Higher gear ratios outside of the Dura-Ace spec, more weight unfortunately, different saddle that supports a more upright position (which I will swap), the layup of the frame more focused on compliance. You take that with the change in geometry and the sum of it's parts makes a smoother but less agile ride.

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petert123
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:02 pm
Location: London, UK

by petert123

This question broadly speaking describes what I'm looking for - a good 4-season frameset on crappy UK roads - eventually replacing a separate winter/summer bike. I coming around the argument to spend the money where you use it most - right now from Oct/Nov to Mar/Apr I'm mostly on the winter bike.

In order of price (!) I've currently got my list down to:

* Drifter-X (by No. 22) - downside is cost to import to UK, otherwise looks perfect; fender mounts, full internal routing, t47 bb, great tyre clearance
* Excel GR (Enigma) - haven't gone to check this out yet (they are here in UK), it also has all of the above except up to 35c tyres, so looks kind of promising
* Festka Rover - looks amazing, no fender mounts, press-fit bb
* Open Up - great, but as Festka
* Allied allroad - threaded bb but not sure about cups pressed into the frame to make it fit a bsa bb, no fender mounts

Anyone with real experence of the above framesets, or something similar I'm missing.

Nikoras
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:59 am

by Nikoras

petert123 wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:45 pm
This question broadly speaking describes what I'm looking for - a good 4-season frameset on crappy UK roads - eventually replacing a separate winter/summer bike. I coming around the argument to spend the money where you use it most - right now from Oct/Nov to Mar/Apr I'm mostly on the winter bike.

In order of price (!) I've currently got my list down to:

* Drifter-X (by No. 22) - downside is cost to import to UK, otherwise looks perfect; fender mounts, full internal routing, t47 bb, great tyre clearance
* Excel GR (Enigma) - haven't gone to check this out yet (they are here in UK), it also has all of the above except up to 35c tyres, so looks kind of promising
* Festka Rover - looks amazing, no fender mounts, press-fit bb
* Open Up - great, but as Festka
* Allied allroad - threaded bb but not sure about cups pressed into the frame to make it fit a bsa bb, no fender mounts

Anyone with real experence of the above framesets, or something similar I'm missing.
Interesting that your list is all stuff I haven't considered yet. In my own headspace I'm leaning more towards the BMC Roadmachine right now. What's up with the wheels on the 01 FOUR though? DT swiss ERC 1650 carbon isn't listed on DT swiss' website and I can't seem to find any info on it. I guess worst case scenario I swap them out for my lightbicycle rims which I am actually loving right now.

I'll definitely do some research on those suggestions though.

EDIT: That Drifter-X certainly makes a statement. It sort of has a retro-futurist look to it. Like someone with an old timey steel bike imagining the future. Cool Stuff, a little pricey though.

EDIT2: that Allied allroad is pretty cool too. I like how configurable it is.

Nikoras
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:59 am

by Nikoras

Something else I should add is Rondo's HVRT https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Rondo/ ... -2020/K5P1

A sub 6 grand dura ace specced bike is something else. The idea of adjustable geometry of the bike seems useful for my purposes but has me a bit wary of the execution. Bike radar seems to believe it works as they named it their road bike of the year.

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petert123
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:02 pm
Location: London, UK

by petert123

Nikoras wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:25 am
Interesting that your list is all stuff I haven't considered yet. In my own headspace I'm leaning more towards the BMC Roadmachine right now. What's up with the wheels on the 01 FOUR though? DT swiss ERC 1650 carbon isn't listed on DT swiss' website and I can't seem to find any info on it. I guess worst case scenario I swap them out for my lightbicycle rims which I am actually loving right now.

I'll definitely do some research on those suggestions though.
I guess I'm a bit old-fashioned, I always lean away from the big brands, it's not a snobby thing, the BMC's look cool whenever I see one -- but I remember the first time (about 3 years ago) that I saw a Passoni in real life, kind of opened my eyes again to titanium; don't look, these are more expensive than the Drifter-X!
Nikoras wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:25 am
EDIT: That Drifter-X certainly makes a statement. It sort of has a retro-futurist look to it. Like someone with an old timey steel bike imagining the future. Cool Stuff, a little pricey though.
EDIT2: that Allied allroad is pretty cool too. I like how configurable it is.
I go back to spending the money where you use it, on the frameset, then the Drifter or Drifter-X seem good value if you'll use it almost every day.

slashy
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:22 am

by slashy

cervelo R3 ? "halfway house" between endurance and racebike ? I have a synapse too, but if I would redo stuff this might be my preferred choice.

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