Wheels for climbing

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Paddypurplepuss
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:27 pm

by Paddypurplepuss

AGB wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:02 am
If you want to achieve a lightweight & STIFF wheelset then you might consider the Giant SLR0 30mm carbon clincher wheelset.... these are 1330grams and STIFFER than waking up with a "weekend woody". +Zero brake rub....I've noticed all ENVE/Zipps suffer from this....Plus durable and very good braking performance in dry and wet.. only just replaced the original bearings after 16,000kms.

These were OEM on all Giant TCR SL0 & SL1 2016+ models...(you could probably find them cheap at a local Giant dealer?) I'm in the process of WW project to drop about 1kg from my current TCR 6.8-> 5.8kgs and it would be difficult to find a stiffer/cheaper set of clincher wheels at that weight......without reverting to LW Meilensteins Clincher/Tubular's.

Giant may not have the sexy name / brand image but performance-wise these are hard to beat. :thumbup:
Wow ill look into those ... didnt know giant made a wheel of that caliber. So your going from 6.8 to 5.8kg - any pics of the build before or after?

by Weenie


the jackel
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:44 pm
Location: London

by the jackel

alcatraz wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:31 am
Extralite SP-T + SP-X hubs and CX-ray spokes (or equivalent) build a quite stiff wheel.

A friend thats 95kg is now testing new lightweight rims out of China. Tubeless 45mm deep 28mm wide ac3 mimic brake tracks = 400gr a piece.

That equals to a 45mm quite stiff wheelset with great rim braking performance at only 1180gr.

If you're interested look for them on aliexpress. We buy them in china from small suppliers. They're pretty cheap too ~900cny.
Can you provide a link for these. I've been looking for something like this but can't find them.

Thanks

alcatraz
Posts: 3375
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

the jackel wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:47 am
alcatraz wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:31 am
Extralite SP-T + SP-X hubs and CX-ray spokes (or equivalent) build a quite stiff wheel.

A friend thats 95kg is now testing new lightweight rims out of China. Tubeless 45mm deep 28mm wide ac3 mimic brake tracks = 400gr a piece.

That equals to a 45mm quite stiff wheelset with great rim braking performance at only 1180gr.

If you're interested look for them on aliexpress. We buy them in china from small suppliers. They're pretty cheap too ~900cny.
Can you provide a link for these. I've been looking for something like this but can't find them.

Thanks
https://market.m.taobao.com/app/idleFis ... rceFlush=1

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Beaver
Posts: 793
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:06 pm

by Beaver

alcatraz wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:08 pm
the jackel wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:47 am
alcatraz wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:31 am
Extralite SP-T + SP-X hubs and CX-ray spokes (or equivalent) build a quite stiff wheel.

A friend thats 95kg is now testing new lightweight rims out of China. Tubeless 45mm deep 28mm wide ac3 mimic brake tracks = 400gr a piece.

That equals to a 45mm quite stiff wheelset with great rim braking performance at only 1180gr.

If you're interested look for them on aliexpress. We buy them in china from small suppliers. They're pretty cheap too ~900cny.
Can you provide a link for these. I've been looking for something like this but can't find them.

Thanks
https://market.m.taobao.com/app/idleFis ... rceFlush=1
Do you know anything about the manufacturer? They do look interesting.

Image

alcatraz
Posts: 3375
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Beaver wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:27 pm
alcatraz wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:08 pm
the jackel wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:47 am
alcatraz wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:31 am
Extralite SP-T + SP-X hubs and CX-ray spokes (or equivalent) build a quite stiff wheel.

A friend thats 95kg is now testing new lightweight rims out of China. Tubeless 45mm deep 28mm wide ac3 mimic brake tracks = 400gr a piece.

That equals to a 45mm quite stiff wheelset with great rim braking performance at only 1180gr.

If you're interested look for them on aliexpress. We buy them in china from small suppliers. They're pretty cheap too ~900cny.
Can you provide a link for these. I've been looking for something like this but can't find them.

Thanks
https://market.m.taobao.com/app/idleFis ... rceFlush=1
Do you know anything about the manufacturer? They do look interesting.

Image
Only that they look like this after a while. I used to be excited about them but I am no longer. (not my wheels)
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wheelsONfire
Posts: 3829
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Paddypurplepuss wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:47 am
wheelsONfire wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:13 am
Schmolke TL or TLO rims (30 or 45 deep), Carbon Ti hubs, CX-ray spokes and internal nipples.
Bought TLO 45 and same spec as above. Rim tape or strip of own choice.
TL is braided T800 weave, TLO is braided T1000 weave.
Weight is alot less than most options above.

Schmolke have NO restrictions of brake pads, as long as it's for carbon.
You can use Reynolds Blue power for instance. Most are very restricted when it comes to pads.
https://reynoldscycling.com/products/cr ... brake-pads
these wheels look and sound amazing - had a quick look there. Would they be stiffer than the zipp 404 firecrest im running now? As long as the weight is below 1450 ot there abouts then stiffness is more importan to me.
From what i've heard, Zipp aren't stiff wheels?

Mine was 1253 grams. I went for the hubs i was recommended from among others, Hambini.
Also went for CX Ray, not the lightest hubs, because i don't wish to sacrifice stiffness.

In general talking wheel stiffness, how can we know for sure?
I have yet to find a third part that actually come up with data.
As far as i know, RAR doesn't do these test anymore?

My quest was for a wheelset that is light, stiff, durable, great hubs and spokes, great brake track and last, have a maintained ride feel.
Chasing the last grams, well, not anymore. For example, Extralite hubs need more maintenence than many other hubs.
Ceramic bearings, well, i'm done with that...

It rains and snows here now, so i can't do any serious testing.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

Wookski
Posts: 1290
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:51 am

by Wookski

robertbb wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:03 am
Wookski wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:47 am
Carbon is the sensible choice, way more longevity than alloy rims
Carbon has more longevity than alloy? Can you please elaborate?
Sure, personally I have found carbon wheels (particularly tubulars, I only have 1 set of clinchers) to be much more durable than alloy. My lightweight Obermeyers have > 50,000km and are still going strong- an alloy braking surface would have worn out a long time ago. Thinking about it, I have never worn out a carbon rim- I'm sure it's possible especially if riding for long periods of time in bad weather.

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Beaver
Posts: 793
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:06 pm

by Beaver

alcatraz wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:50 pm
Only that they look like this after a while. I used to be excited about them but I am no longer. (not my wheels)
Ok, no separate brake track, they just put the pattern on the rim. No good idea. :shock: In this case: What you get is what you pay...

robertbb
Posts: 1616
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Beaver wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:25 pm
alcatraz wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:50 pm
Only that they look like this after a while. I used to be excited about them but I am no longer. (not my wheels)
Ok, no separate brake track, they just put the pattern on the rim. No good idea. :shock: In this case: What you get is what you pay...
Who'd have thought - cheap chinese products aren't any good. Well I'm shocked.

robertbb
Posts: 1616
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Wookski wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:11 pm
robertbb wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:03 am
Wookski wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:47 am
Carbon is the sensible choice, way more longevity than alloy rims
Carbon has more longevity than alloy? Can you please elaborate?
Sure, personally I have found carbon wheels (particularly tubulars, I only have 1 set of clinchers) to be much more durable than alloy. My lightweight Obermeyers have > 50,000km and are still going strong- an alloy braking surface would have worn out a long time ago. Thinking about it, I have never worn out a carbon rim- I'm sure it's possible especially if riding for long periods of time in bad weather.
Thanks, you gotta trust your own experience I suppose. Would it have anything to do with the conditions they are being ridden in? The pads?

I just have my own doubts that carbon brak track is somehow going to last any longer than a quality alloy one. The other thing to factor in is that it's very visible when alloy rims are worn. Not so with Carbon. Maybe they are worn but don't look it because you're getting to lower and lower layers of carbon? I suppose the only way to measure it would be to take very detailed measurements of brake track width over time in an environment with a controlled amount/pressure of braking.

alcatraz
Posts: 3375
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

The nice thing is you can afford to swap rims after 2 years. You don't have to try so hard to preserve them.

Enve brake tracks aren't exactly pristine after a few years either.

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fortrog
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:45 am

by fortrog

@paddypurplepuss I just did the same thing as you - coming off a pair of zipp 404s and am tired of getting blown around on descents/climb way too much to hold onto those anymore. Just got a pair of Dt Swiss PRC 1400 spline 35s in the mail today. Will have em up and running Monday and will be putting them to good use all next week!
2018 Specialized Tarmac Pro - Oil Chameleon

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otoman
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: Nashville

by otoman

Paddypurplepuss, those 404's as other posters have mentioned, are notorious for being blown around b/c of the U shaped profile. They designed that profile b/c it is predictable in cross winds. In other words, as angle increases, there is not as big of a snap or yank at the bars when you finally hit the stall point. That being said though, more recent strudies have shown the U-profile has generally more force on the steering axis-- you'll get pushed with far more force, but more predictably.

A few companies such as Bontrager has gone back to the more V-shaped, perhaps even hyrbrid torodial type of shape which has much less force on the steering axis. I'll see if I can dig up the info. The downside is that the stall occurs at a lower angle. But with descending speeds, the winds will be all at very shallow angles to you, close to head on. When you do get a cross wind, it will have less force on the steering axis with the uber-modern profile from Bonty or Reynolds. I have personally noted a dramatic improvement in cross wind steering stability using a Reynolds AR58 vs a 404. I'm your size BTW. Hope this helps.
Age and treachery shall overcome youth and skill

LewisK
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:11 pm

by LewisK

Wookski wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:11 pm
robertbb wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:03 am
Wookski wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:47 am
Carbon is the sensible choice, way more longevity than alloy rims
Carbon has more longevity than alloy? Can you please elaborate?
Sure, personally I have found carbon wheels (particularly tubulars, I only have 1 set of clinchers) to be much more durable than alloy. My lightweight Obermeyers have > 50,000km and are still going strong- an alloy braking surface would have worn out a long time ago. Thinking about it, I have never worn out a carbon rim- I'm sure it's possible especially if riding for long periods of time in bad weather.
They must be a fair bit lighter than when they were new 😉

Paddypurplepuss
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:27 pm

by Paddypurplepuss

fortrog wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:42 am
@paddypurplepuss I just did the same thing as you - coming off a pair of zipp 404s and am tired of getting blown around on descents/climb way too much to hold onto those anymore. Just got a pair of Dt Swiss PRC 1400 spline 35s in the mail today. Will have em up and running Monday and will be putting them to good use all next week!
Hey those DTs are gorgeous looking wheels. Did you go for the rim or disc brake version? Can you say why the rim version are heavier than the disc - usually its the other way round right?

by Weenie


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