Campagnolo 12sp chain on 11sp drivetrain

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joeyb1000
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Re: Campagnolo 12sp chain on 11sp drivetrain

Post by joeyb1000 »

To answer the OP. I tested it, and it works just fine. I don't think there is any change in noise or performance.

kervelo
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Location: Finland

Re: Campagnolo 12sp chain on 11sp drivetrain

Post by kervelo »

Has anyone mixed old 11sp with the new 12sp components? I am thinking of getting just the new Chorus 12sp shifters and derailleurs (and of course the cassette and chain) and keeping the old 11sp H11 crankset. I suppose that would be a fully working combination?

joeyb1000
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Re: Campagnolo 12sp chain on 11sp drivetrain

Post by joeyb1000 »

kervelo wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:40 pm
Has anyone mixed old 11sp with the new 12sp components? I am thinking of getting just the new Chorus 12sp shifters and derailleurs (and of course the cassette and chain) and keeping the old 11sp H11 crankset. I suppose that would be a fully working combination?
Yes. See the 12s thread for lots more info.

kervelo
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Re: Campagnolo 12sp chain on 11sp drivetrain

Post by kervelo »

Yes, I have read the thread, at least most of it. Because of the length of it, it is no longer very easy to find technical info or experiences from the posts. I understand that Campagnolo does not recommend mixing 11sp with 12sp, but I am looking for user experiences.

What I did find was that the 11sp H11 crankset is almost the same as the 12sp chorus; only the chainrings are different. But the chainring position is the same, so the 12sp chorus FD should work, if I am correct.

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Beaver
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Re: Campagnolo 12sp chain on 11sp drivetrain

Post by Beaver »

c60rider wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:46 am
Why would you want to use a 12 speed chain on 11 speed??? :noidea:
Are you able to adjust your derailleur, so that the chain does not touch the upper or lower "neighbour" on all sprockets with a Campy setup?

With Shimano 11s cassette and 11s chain and SRAM Red mech. derailleur, that was quite impossible, tolerances were too low.

DaveS
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Re: Campagnolo 12sp chain on 11sp drivetrain

Post by DaveS »

I would certainly try the 11 speed crank, if the rings are in good shape. I bought 12 speed cranks, only because I wanted the new 48/32. Just be sure to get the 12 speed FD. The new shifters will include the new maximum smoothness cables, that do improve shifting.

c60rider
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Re: Campagnolo 12sp chain on 11sp drivetrain

Post by c60rider »

Beaver wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:47 pm
c60rider wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:46 am
Why would you want to use a 12 speed chain on 11 speed??? :noidea:
Are you able to adjust your derailleur, so that the chain does not touch the upper or lower "neighbour" on all sprockets with a Campy setup?

With Shimano 11s cassette and 11s chain and SRAM Red mech. derailleur, that was quite impossible, tolerances were too low.
On my 11 speed setups and I have 2 post-2015 setups (1 disc and 1 rim) all gears work perfectly with no rubbing on the front mech on any extremes of cross chaining. So in that respect it's set up correctly. You can only adjust the rear derailleur so that it changes correctly on all sprockets in either large or small chainring. Beyond that it's impossible to adjust the space between sprockets which is what you appear to be implying with the chain potentially touching the neighbouring sprocket. If it does then what is the problem with that with an otherwise perfectly functioning setup? That's how it has been designed and manufactured. With finer and finer tolerances being engineered in to fit more sprockets within the same space you can only come up with compromises when the entire kit has been engineered to work together. Using a 12 speed chain on 11 speed chainrings? I'm guessing the gap between the plates of the chain are fractionally narrower so there must be more chance of the chain having increased friction on the chainrings as you now have less space than with an 11 speed chain.

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Beaver
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Re: Campagnolo 12sp chain on 11sp drivetrain

Post by Beaver »

c60rider wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:32 pm
Beaver wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:47 pm
c60rider wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:46 am
Why would you want to use a 12 speed chain on 11 speed??? :noidea:
Are you able to adjust your derailleur, so that the chain does not touch the upper or lower "neighbour" on all sprockets with a Campy setup?

With Shimano 11s cassette and 11s chain and SRAM Red mech. derailleur, that was quite impossible, tolerances were too low.
On my 11 speed setups and I have 2 post-2015 setups (1 disc and 1 rim) all gears work perfectly with no rubbing on the front mech on any extremes of cross chaining. So in that respect it's set up correctly. You can only adjust the rear derailleur so that it changes correctly on all sprockets in either large or small chainring. Beyond that it's impossible to adjust the space between sprockets which is what you appear to be implying with the chain potentially touching the neighbouring sprocket. If it does then what is the problem with that with an otherwise perfectly functioning setup? That's how it has been designed and manufactured. With finer and finer tolerances being engineered in to fit more sprockets within the same space you can only come up with compromises when the entire kit has been engineered to work together. Using a 12 speed chain on 11 speed chainrings? I'm guessing the gap between the plates of the chain are fractionally narrower so there must be more chance of the chain having increased friction on the chainrings as you now have less space than with an 11 speed chain.
With my 11s chain and 11s cassette setup and the chain rubbing on the nearby sprocket there should have been more drag for sure (despite the noise). Yes, the chain is 0.2mm narrower but on the front rings I can't find and hear any difference, even with a crossed chain. The CN-M9100 chain has been optimized in that regard because of 1x drive trains though. But I can't confirm that it runs any better with a crossed chain than before.

If your setup is allright for you, that's great, it's just the rubbing chain on my setup that startled me.

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