BMC Teammachine SLR01 Disc Four vs Focus Izalco Max 9.7 vs Specialized Tarmac Disc Pro

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
fabdi
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:23 am

by fabdi

Hello Guys,

I am going to buy a new bike and have the following options at similar price and weight locally:

BMC Teammachine SLR01 Disc Four 2020 (7.6 Kg Size 51)
Focus Izalco Max 9.7 2019 (7.6 Kg Size S)
Specialized Tarmac Disc Pro 2019 (Not sure... 7.4 Kg Size 52)

All of them with Ultegra DI2 but Force AXS is possible if the weight is the same, should have semi aero profile and with similar weights (less is better because I have lot of climbs locally)

I like the clean look of BMC and Focus, cannot test them so I am looking for people who can give me their advices and comparations between them... I dont know how good could be the Tarmac with Fact10r instead of Fact12r compared with the other two but it looks like it is the lighter of the group.

BMC and Focus has top end Framesets, not the same for Specialized.

Which one would you choose between them and why? Force AXS will indeed make those bikes heavier?

I reduced my options to those three because I found them locally, if you consider another option please let me know, I will search it and check prices on my LBS.

Requirements:

SemiAero tube profiles and dropped seat stays (not as radical as Venge or Timemachine or Madonne)
Clean and Integrated if possible
Lightest possible at this range of prices 7.6 kg is my maximum but with possible future updates to make it lighter (7 kg if possible changing anything like groupset and/or wheelset)
Disc is a must
Tubeless Ready
Electronic Groupset
Very good handling and braking

Thanks a lot!!! :beerchug: :beerchug:
Last edited by fabdi on Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


jkonst
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:42 pm

by jkonst

Not sure if this factors into your decision at all, but I looked at the Teammachine this summer and my LBS told me it wouldn't fit a 28mm tire (it sounded like they had tried). Looking around, it appears the Focus should, and the Tarmac definitely will.

Edit: according to the following post, this is incorrect! Leaving it up for posterity. Not sure why my (large, well known!) LBS was so adamant about that...
Last edited by jkonst on Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

iamraymond
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:59 am

by iamraymond

Getting any of those bikes to 7kg with Ultegra di2 is going to be a costly affair. I have an SLR01 disc built up with UDi2 and it's around 7.5kg with DA pedals, EC90 SLX3 bars, DT Swiss PRC 1400 wheelset. To get it to 7kg and keep the groupset, I'd have to go for a 1100g wheelset, Darimo seat post, and a sub 150g saddle. Going DA right away is going to make it easier for you to hit the 7kg mark.

Those BMC alloy RAB02 bars are quite heavy so you could drop 100g easily there. Same with a carbon saddle. Not sure about the stock CRD 351 wheelset, but I'm assuming it's >1500g so there's room there as well. You're kind of stuck with the stem, and although it's heavy, it's one of the best designs for integrated cockpits IMO.

Also I'm running 28mm Vittoria Corsas with no problem at all. Plenty of clearance and the frame is spec'd by BMC to fit 28's.

fabdi
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:23 am

by fabdi

Thanks guys, @iamraymond: sorry, my bad, I already edited... The idea is to do future updates including groupset and/or wheels to get the 7 Kg mark or close to it. The important is to know that it is possible and also to know how to get down weight of BMC with this info, thanks!!! How is your BMC on climbs?

Any advices or comments from people who knows these bikes are very welcome!

djel
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:29 am
Location: Montreal, CA

by djel

I was in a similar situation as you and I ended up leaving a deposit on a 2020 Izalco 9.7 (Force AXS color) but with the groupset swapped to 11spd etap (don't like AXS). The DT Swiss wheelset was also swapped to a custom built heavy duty / low profile wheelset that I will use for training (about $4500 USD total). I'm ordering Light Bicycle AR56 to run 28mm tubeless

I absolutely loved the new 9.7 frameset but didn't want Force as it's quite heavy. The Izalco ticked all the boxes for me and, without being a "superbike", it's lightweight enough at a reasonable price.

Image

Jugi
Posts: 571
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:10 am

by Jugi

I'm surprised the Teammachine SLR01 is in the same price bracket as a Tarmac SL6 Pro. Although the SLR01 is harder to get to your preferred weight, I would buy that just because the premium value (whether or not that's subjective).

You'll find the Teammachine's and Tarmac SL6's geometries are sort of in between of each other. If you know your optimal frame dimensions to a couple of millimeters, most likely one or the other will provide a better fit overall.

Izalco Max is sort of a dark horse of the trio. Right now it looks like a modernized version of the SL6, albeit with a small weight penalty that comes with integration.

iamraymond
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:59 am

by iamraymond

fabdi wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:18 pm
Thanks guys, @iamraymond: sorry, my bad, I already edited... The idea is to do future updates including groupset and/or wheels to get the 7 Kg mark or close to it. The important is to know that it is possible and also to know how to get down weight of BMC with this info, thanks!!! How is your BMC on climbs?

Any advices or comments from people who knows these bikes are very welcome!
The SLR01 climbs beautifully. I don't have much to compare it against, except my former bike (Canyon Endurace SL rim brake). Even though the Canyon was 400g lighter, I didn't really notice extra weight when climbing on the BMC. I've beaten all of my PRs on my BMC which were previously set on the Canyon (plus I was in better shape when I had the Canyon).

Decents are excellent also. And the disc brakes actually do help quite a bit when decending. Last Sunday, I did one of our local climbs (around 12km where the last 4km are >8%) where the conditions were cold, wet and foggy so I wanted to take the decent nice and slow. I was fatigued, my hands were wet/cold, the visibility was poor, and there were cars/motorbikes. I was very thankful for my disc brakes in that scenario since I didn't think twice about my stopping ability, even if I had to drag my brakes for steeper sections.

Here are some weights (some measured by me, some measured by others on this forum) to give you an idea when you add cockpit, finishing kit, groupset, and wheels.

BMC SLR01 Framset: 980
Fork: 437
ICS spacers + plate: 59
ICS Stem 90mm: 131
Seatpost clamp: 16
Headset: 54
Seatpost: 195
Thru Axles: 54

Campervan
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:45 pm

by Campervan

If you are unable to test them, at least sit on them. I have a 51 (S) BMC, however in specialised sizing I am a 54 (M). Personally I'd probably go for the BMC purely out of preference depending on colour.
BMC Granfondo 02 105
Btwin 540
Specialized Venge Pro Disc

mmeysarosh
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:38 pm

by mmeysarosh

Take a moment and look at the complete geometry at the given size. Both BMC and Focus use a single fork offset, so the handling on smaller sizes vs larger will differ a bit more than the Tarmac. The Tarmac will very likely be the more responsive of the lot, but conversly will need a bit more focus and attention on fast descents, relative to the other two. There is more to say on that topic, but there are some good discussions about differences in geometry and their respevtive handling characteristics.

This would be ahead of the weight difference between these three in my book. Depending on what your riding today, would give a good indication of what your used to and how much of an adjustment any one of these are. Its something that smaller riders contend with regualrly as heatuble angle is often slackened a bit more with only some changing the fork offset to keep the steering response similar across the size range.

fabdi
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:23 am

by fabdi

Thanks a lot guys for your comments...
iamraymond wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:26 am
fabdi wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:18 pm
Thanks guys, @iamraymond: sorry, my bad, I already edited... The idea is to do future updates including groupset and/or wheels to get the 7 Kg mark or close to it. The important is to know that it is possible and also to know how to get down weight of BMC with this info, thanks!!! How is your BMC on climbs?

Any advices or comments from people who knows these bikes are very welcome!
The SLR01 climbs beautifully. I don't have much to compare it against, except my former bike (Canyon Endurace SL rim brake). Even though the Canyon was 400g lighter, I didn't really notice extra weight when climbing on the BMC. I've beaten all of my PRs on my BMC which were previously set on the Canyon (plus I was in better shape when I had the Canyon).

Decents are excellent also. And the disc brakes actually do help quite a bit when decending. Last Sunday, I did one of our local climbs (around 12km where the last 4km are >8%) where the conditions were cold, wet and foggy so I wanted to take the decent nice and slow. I was fatigued, my hands were wet/cold, the visibility was poor, and there were cars/motorbikes. I was very thankful for my disc brakes in that scenario since I didn't think twice about my stopping ability, even if I had to drag my brakes for steeper sections.

Here are some weights (some measured by me, some measured by others on this forum) to give you an idea when you add cockpit, finishing kit, groupset, and wheels.

BMC SLR01 Framset: 980
Fork: 437
ICS spacers + plate: 59
ICS Stem 90mm: 131
Seatpost clamp: 16
Headset: 54
Seatpost: 195
Thru Axles: 54
BMC's Fork It think is heavy at 437 gr (uncut I suppose), 980 gr of Frame is a little bit high compared with Tarmac and the integrated cockpit adds more... Focus Izalco Max frame only weights 970 gr in size S (I´ve confirmed it), so both BMC and Focus are very similar according with this info.

Uhm... I understand why it is difficult to get it under 7 Kg...
mmeysarosh wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:48 am
Take a moment and look at the complete geometry at the given size. Both BMC and Focus use a single fork offset, so the handling on smaller sizes vs larger will differ a bit more than the Tarmac. The Tarmac will very likely be the more responsive of the lot, but conversly will need a bit more focus and attention on fast descents, relative to the other two. There is more to say on that topic, but there are some good discussions about differences in geometry and their respevtive handling characteristics.

This would be ahead of the weight difference between these three in my book. Depending on what your riding today, would give a good indication of what your used to and how much of an adjustment any one of these are. Its something that smaller riders contend with regualrly as heatuble angle is often slackened a bit more with only some changing the fork offset to keep the steering response similar across the size range.
I have a Canyon Ultimate CF Evo (Rim brake) for several years now, size XS but my knees hit my handlebar when I stand up and I have 110 mm stem (I consider the slackened heattube with 71 degrees is responsible for this because there are still 2 spacers before stem), I need to force a little bit handlebar with some curves in fast descends (not something difficult nor critical, I can do it very well and fast)

I have this table comparing geometry of the bikes:

____________________________________[Size]__[Reach]__[Stack]__[Head Tube]__[Top Tube]__[Seat Tube]__[Seat Angle]__[Head Angle]__[Fork Offset]__[Trail]
Canyon Ultimate CF Evo___________[XS]____[378]____[522]____[113]________[529]________[462]________[73.83]_______[71]____________[41.5]*________[73]*
Specialized Sworks Tarmac Disc___[52]____[380]____[527]____[126]________[531]________[462]________[74]___________[72.5]__________[47]__________[58]
BMC TeamMachine SLR01 Disc____[51]____[377]____[530]____[133]________[535]________[468]________[73.5]_________[72]____________[41.6]________[66]
Focus Izalco Max 9 Disc____________[S]_____[378]____[528]____[100]________[535]________[490]________[73.5]_________[71.5]__________[46]__________[65]

*Not confirmed

I think BMC and Focus will behave similar to Canyon and Tarmac will be more responsive and any of the 3 will solve my knees hitting issue. Maybe Tarmac will be the easiest to get under 7 kg.

Specialized LBS just call me and gave to me a 10% discount if I decide this weekend jajajaja, pressure!!!

Guys between those 3 bikes, Tarmac is less aero than Focus or BMC? Or it is equivalent to them? Because of discount of LBS, tarmac price is now the cheaper option.

bilwit
Posts: 1221
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:49 am
Location: Seattle, WA

by bilwit

fabdi wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:09 pm
Specialized LBS just call me and gave to me a 10% discount if I decide this weekend jajajaja, pressure!!!

Guys between those 3 bikes, Tarmac is less aero than Focus or BMC? Or it is equivalent to them? Because of discount of LBS, tarmac price is now the cheaper option.
The Focus and the Tarmac would be an interesting test, though I wouldn't be surprised if they were more or less the same. The BMC has to be last due to the massive oval downtube and fork profile in comparison to the other two. Sad to hear that the disc version is hard to get under 7 kilos, though surely if you threw out the integrated bits and got true WW components it could be close (seatpost+stem+bars would easily account for ~250g compared to stock). My lightest rim brake setup is pushing 6.3 these days even with boat anchor ENVE aero bars and ROTOR 3D+ crank.

Honestly, you should pick the bike that looks best to you. With this tier of bike, you're splitting hairs when it comes to performance. Get the one that stands out to you most. If it were me in your position, that's what I would do. If it was for pure performance, I'd probably get the Tarmac. 95% of the "serious" cyclists around here ride Tarmacs though, so it would annoy me to have the same bike as everyone else. If you want something a little bit more unique, go with the Focus... unless the aesthetic of the BMC speaks to you.

Jugi
Posts: 571
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:10 am

by Jugi

bilwit wrote: The Focus and the Tarmac would be an interesting test, though I wouldn't be surprised if they were more or less the same. The BMC has to be last due to the massive oval downtube and fork profile in comparison to the other two.
That's a good point. Although all three look similar when looking at their side silhouette, I'd say when compared side by side in person, the TeamMachine looks relatively bulky and the Tarmac looks slim & light. The bike's appereance gives off a very different impression.

I was in Mallorca a couple of years ago while the SL6 was paraded around in Spesh dealers and events as the next big thing. During that trip I was riding a rental TM SLR02, and was blown away by clean proportions & slim lines of the SL6.

I haven't seen the current Izalco in person, but I'd guess it is in between of the two in this regard.

iamraymond
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:59 am

by iamraymond

The 2020 SLR01 TWO (Dura Ace Di2) is 7.1kg with a >1500g DT Swiss wheelset. So if you upgrade the wheels (sub-1300g), the groupset (i.e. DA), and add a carbon saddle/bar, then a sub 7kg BMC SLR01 disc is definitely acheivable. My post above was assuming the Ultegra Di2 groupset. I have a spreadsheet where I can get my UDi2 build under 7kg with pedals, but it requires a Darimo seat post and a 1100g wheelset.

willmac
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:33 am

by willmac

56 teammachine is 7.2 kg with garmin mounts, cages, DA pedals. If you were prepared to swap out the integrated parts as stated above plus put a berk saddle on, you would definitely end up below 7.0.

Horses for courses but to me the teammachine has the nicest lines out of those three bikes.
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by Weenie


fabdi
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:23 am

by fabdi

bilwit wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:40 am
Honestly, you should pick the bike that looks best to you. With this tier of bike, you're splitting hairs when it comes to performance. Get the one that stands out to you most. If it were me in your position, that's what I would do. If it was for pure performance, I'd probably get the Tarmac. 95% of the "serious" cyclists around here ride Tarmacs though, so it would annoy me to have the same bike as everyone else. If you want something a little bit more unique, go with the Focus... unless the aesthetic of the BMC speaks to you.
I think, this is a pretty good advice, thank you... At this level any of those bikes will make me happy and they will meet my requirements...
iamraymond wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:25 pm
The 2020 SLR01 TWO (Dura Ace Di2) is 7.1kg with a >1500g DT Swiss wheelset. So if you upgrade the wheels (sub-1300g), the groupset (i.e. DA), and add a carbon saddle/bar, then a sub 7kg BMC SLR01 disc is definitely acheivable. My post above was assuming the Ultegra Di2 groupset. I have a spreadsheet where I can get my UDi2 build under 7kg with pedals, but it requires a Darimo seat post and a 1100g wheelset.
Thanks for the info, nice to know it is possible!
willmac wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:41 pm
56 teammachine is 7.2 kg with garmin mounts, cages, DA pedals. If you were prepared to swap out the integrated parts as stated above plus put a berk saddle on, you would definitely end up below 7.0.

Horses for courses but to me the teammachine has the nicest lines out of those three bikes.
Thank you!!! Beatiful bike!

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