Help me build a performance weenie steel bike

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
ichobi
Posts: 955
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

Hey guys, I am looking to add a steel bike to the garage. I work in bike media so have to travel with my bike many times a years. I am always on constant worry having my bike transfered in the bus, van, cars etc. I ride Tarmac Sl6 Ultralight with Roval CLX32mm wheels. Both of which already see some unwanted marks due to constant packing / unpacking. I also worry about them getting broken due to some silly accident like something dorp on them during transfer. I also want to try modern steel bike as opposed to high performance carbon racing bike which don't differ much from model to model. This will be something truly special and custom sized / painted.

Goals:

Perforance weenie steel racing bike, with enough tire clearance for light gravel ride (30mm clearance is enough for me since 95% of my riding will be on good tarmac).

Light weight enough but not too serious about weight. So long as it's under 7.5-7.8kg I will be happy. So I am looking for some feedback on the build options below.

Frame choice
- Cherubim Racer or Piuma
- Festka Roller
- Stebel SB/03
- Legor Poreca

I live in Asia and visit Tokyo often so Cherubim is not difficult to source and talk to. The price is also very reasonable (around 2800-3000 usd). Though I am not so sure about the performance since not many people have it.

For Festka, I have an importer who work directly with the brand - this will be easy too but cost more than Cherubim. Looking at XCR tubing (if it makes any difference?). The same importer also imports Legor, which is less mainstream than Festka but is also an unknown quality (not much review). Paint is more subdue than Festka also which I don't mind.

Stelbel gets lots of rave reviews on the internet and seems to have all the proper design of modern race bike.

Brake option
I have Sram Red AXS Disc but I never feel lacking with Dura-Ace or EE Direct mount, even on a standard none textured braketrack like the Rovals

I am a light rider (64kg). Going Disc means adding more weight to an already heavy frame material and it feels some what unneccessary.

Travelling with them is more hassle too. However I want to use the already purchased groupset. Switching back to rim brake means buying a new pair of shifter. It will affect the wheels choice too since I already have the Vision Metron 40SL Disc, which are really really good.

If I go rim brake, I will ask the builder to use direct mount. I will also take the new Cadex carbon spoked wheels. They are super light for their depth and made by Giant. They are hookless so this might rule out the running of latex tube (my preference) with some fast cotton clincher tires. GP5000 Tubeless might come to the rescue here.

I will transfer other equipments from my Tarmac bike - these are Blackinc integrated bar stem, Saddle is S-Works Power Arc.

That's the idea I have in mind for now. Speedvagen could also be one of the choice for frameset, but I'd rather Cherubim than it since the latter is a but more unique.

Last edited by ichobi on Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:56 am, edited 3 times in total.

ChiZ01
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:20 pm

by ChiZ01

rim brake or cabled disk allows for S/S decoupler or breakaway frames. Those $100 bikes fees adds up over time

by Weenie


Wookski
Posts: 1105
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:51 am

by Wookski

My votes are for Cherubim (I'm obviously biased) and Legor. Cherubim are excellent- production quality is outstanding and they do some very interesting designs. I have seen a few Legors recently and they are the real deal- stunning bikes. Festka has never appealed to me, excellent paint but average quality and stelbel look cool and ride well but the finish is not as good as the higher tier brands. For a travel bike I definitely recommend rim brake and use a quality hard case so you can still use weight weenie components.

schlafen
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:51 pm

by schlafen

Why not titanium? Lots of gravel'ish, light'ish good looking frames out there.

7.5kg for gravel, in any type of metal, disc and without ww parts? Can't wait to see that

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ichobi
Posts: 955
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

schlafen wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:39 am
Why not titanium? Lots of gravel'ish, light'ish good looking frames out there.

7.5kg for gravel, in any type of metal, disc and without ww parts? Can't wait to see that

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
7.5kg would be the rim brake version (if I go for those). Titanium is something I hadn't considered! Will also look into it.

I would also say it's not really a gravel bike but a performance road race bike that can accommodate 30mm tires (but this will mean I have to go for disc since you can't use more than 28mm with rim brake), and thus heavier. If I stick with rim brake, 7.5kg is probably doable. (May be I am overly optimistic?).

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micky
Posts: 4917
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Vicenza
Contact:

by micky

Personal opinion; truly special/custom painted and travel bike don't go hand on hand very well.
I would personally get something on the cheap side that I wouldn't be piss off for more than 1 month or so.

Anyway for travel bike I would surely go for rim brakes and probably even external BB cups so that in the worst scenario you can borrow/buy things easily wherever you are.

schlafen
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:51 pm

by schlafen

ichobi wrote:
schlafen wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:39 am
Why not titanium? Lots of gravel'ish, light'ish good looking frames out there.

7.5kg for gravel, in any type of metal, disc and without ww parts? Can't wait to see that

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
7.5kg would be the rim brake version (if I go for those). Titanium is something I hadn't considered! Will also look into it.

I would also say it's not really a gravel bike but a performance road race bike that can accommodate 30mm tires (but this will mean I have to go for disc since you can't use more than 28mm with rim brake), and thus heavier. If I stick with rim brake, 7.5kg is probably doable. (May be I am overly optimistic?).
The rim brake version would help massively if travelling a lot.

There are rim brakes which accomodate 30mm tyres just not extremely wide rims.
Any rim over 27mm wide and you're better off with discs for safety reasons.

I ran ultegra R8000 on one of my bikes with 28mm as a daily commuter and it could easily take 32mm as long as the frame is allowing it. By 32mm I mean road 32mm tyres not knobbly mtb type tyres.

Stiff carbon frames, stiff carbon wheels, carbon bars, saddles and seatposts, no wonder people want 40mm tyres to take the enge off all that 'compliance' heh.

As far as paint goes, titanium is zero maintenance, no corrosion and don't have to worry about scratching it and most of them come with nicely etched graphics as well.

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ichobi
Posts: 955
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

micky wrote:Personal opinion; truly special/custom painted and travel bike don't go hand on hand very well.
I would personally get something on the cheap side that I wouldn't be piss off for more than 1 month or so.

Anyway for travel bike I would surely go for rim brakes and probably even external BB cups so that in the worst scenario you can borrow/buy things easily wherever you are.
This is also true. Avoiding scruff marks on black carbon frames or paint chip on steel frames probably raise the same annoyance... But alas, let's see how it turns out with the metal bike. At least i don't have to worry about razor thin seat stays braking from some random drop.

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morrisond
Posts: 947
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

How about an AllCity Mr. Pink.

It uses Mid Reach Brakes for 32mm TIre Clearance - Awesome Paint Job on the 10th Anniversary and if you scratch it who cares - Only $1,150 USD.

https://allcitycycles.com/bikes/mr_pink ... nniversary

It would make a great Travel Bike.

Stick with a Mechanical Groupset for travel - Another battery is just one more Hassle you don't need while travelling. You can buy a full Mechanical Ultegra or Potenza Groupset for less money than your AXS Shifters - Keep that Groupset and Wheels for the good bike at home.

The Mr. Pink also has Fender Mounts and will take 28's for the rainy days/winter training bike.


All that being said - if you still go custom - stay away from Custom Paint - it will get destroyed - stick with Stainless or Ti - Stay away from Polished or Bead Blasted finishes - a brushed finish is easy to fix.

Have fun!

kode54
Posts: 1622
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

How about a Masi? or a Breadwinner? Both of which you can get close to your target weight.
- Factor 02 Disc + DA9170 + Enve 4.5AR CK CL hubs
- Moots Vamoots Disc RSL Titanium + DA9170 + Enve 3.4AR CK CL hubs
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 Ene carbon hubs
- Argonaut Spacebike 2.0 + DA9170 + Enve SES 5.6 DT Swiss 240 CL hubs

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2963
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

http://tredbikes.com/bikes/

Personally i just wish i could afford a new bike
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

boots2000
Posts: 1551
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:28 pm

by boots2000

In the USA but I suggest something like a Rock Lobster with a powdercoat finish (or even cerakote).
All of the perfromance, none of the fluff- he could make a nice, fairly light and durable bike for this application.
And it will not break the bank.

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 4930
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

Well you dont even have to buy new. Rim brake bikes rock skinny steel tubes rock. I have an old skinny tubed Columbus genius bike that weighs 7.2kg with old record 10 speed. There plenty of weight to come if this bike.

If it were me, I'd get a frame made from columbus xtr or renoylds stairs frame built.

This cinelli might suit you.
https://cinelli.it/en/prodotti/xcr-en/

Then build up how you choose. I'd stick to rim brakes too. I like disc brake but I like rim.brakes more.
Co elli also do the Nemo tig in rim and disc brake form.

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 4930
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

Stainless unpainted frame or a brushed ti frame are perfect for travelling. Theres no.pint to chip. The metal can get scratched though.

by Weenie


robertbb
Posts: 1060
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Why not an alloy bike, if it's for travel? It'll likely be lighter than your steel bike (and therefore easier to hit weight limits on flights, etc).

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