Which Frame and standover?

[RocketRacing]

So i am focusing far too much on geometry charts.

I have a felt f series in 51 that i am upgrading to a used fr1. The newer fr frames have a Higher head tube (higher stack), lower standover (more tt slope), slightly shorter reach.

All good as i have 2cm spacers on my f series 51, with a 110mm -6 degree stem.

So on the 51 fr, with no spacers i will have a lower stack... which may look pro, but i dont need to kiss my front wheel. It is also has a lower standover, and shorter seat tube... meaning more exposed seatpost. I dare not expose more post on my darimo as it is near max already (it would just fit) and i dont need more flex. To hit my position i would need a 120mm stem, and a small spacer. Standover would be excessive. But the bike would be a bit lighter and look agressive.

A 54 fr is my size as per felt generic sizing. Of note, all the pros taller than me, riding felt, ride size 51 bikes... because pro (mind you, i can drop low too, but my hands eventually pay). Stack is quite a bit higher, but slammed with a 100mm -17 stem, i can hit my sttack/reach near spot on (110mm stem a touch long, 100mm a touch short). I get about 2cm less seatpost, which will be good for stiffness. But... standover goes from miles to maybe just over an inch. I wish that were not the case, although i know it is acceptable.

Thoughts on the 51 vs 54?

I think i just need justification as i got the 54. But i can swap it for a 51 with some cost.

[DaveS]

You must be about my size. If I set up the 54cm, I'd run the same -17, 100mm stem, with no spacers. At 168cm tall, my cycling inseam is about 83cm and my saddle height is 73cm. With my cycling inseam, I'd have 8cm of standover clearance, which is plenty.

If my saddle height was 2cm lower, I'd choose the 51, because the stack is 2cm lower.

[backdoor]

51 is lighter

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[RocketRacing]

You must be about my size. If I set up the 54cm, I'd run the same -17, 100mm stem, with no spacers. At 168cm tall, my cycling inseam is about 83cm and my saddle height is 73cm. With my cycling inseam, I'd have 8cm of standover clearance, which is plenty.

If my saddle height was 2cm lower, I'd choose the 51, because the stack is 2cm lower.

Yup! 170cm tall. Inseem with cleats and bike shorts is 80cm. Maybe slightly higher depending on how you want to jam stuff up.

Saddle is 69.5... so similar difference to you.

[spdntrxi]

I'd probably get a 51... I have the same saddle height.. ~70 .. but I'm 177cm tall... I'm on a 48cm BMC

[RocketRacing]

I can go low, but are you guys riding mostly on the hoods? I mostly ride drops, and going much lower up front would result in my hands giving me grief.

The only downside of the 51 (and why i went for 54) is the 2cm lower seat tube. THat puts my custom darimp post at 5cm beyond the bottom insertion line. So I would need a new custom post, or need to drop the saddle 0.5cm. the latter is not a gamechanger, but not ideal...

first world problems.

[spdntrxi]

drops... I have 20mm of spacers... but the thats still 5mm lower then a 51 BMC can go with no spacers.. The headtube on a 48 TMR01 is tiny. I did opt for the 110 stem which is -15. Normally 48/51cm come with 100mm stems. I have the opposite issue.. my seatpost is basically at the min insertion line... if I was any taller I would need the longer post that comes on the 54 and above frames.

I'd be all about saving my Darimo as well.. so dont blame you on that one.

[sychen]

You must be about my size. If I set up the 54cm, I'd run the same -17, 100mm stem, with no spacers. At 168cm tall, my cycling inseam is about 83cm and my saddle height is 73cm. With my cycling inseam, I'd have 8cm of standover clearance, which is plenty.

If my saddle height was 2cm lower, I'd choose the 51, because the stack is 2cm lower.

Yup! 170cm tall. Inseem with cleats and bike shorts is 80cm. Maybe slightly higher depending on how you want to jam stuff up.

Saddle is 69.5... so similar difference to you.

I'm this size too.. 170cm tall.
Saddle height from bb 690mm
Inseam 775mm
Specialized Tarmac sl6 52cm..no issues with standover.. 6 deg Stem slammed.

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[Karvalo]

Of note, all the pros taller than me, riding felt, ride size 51 bikes...

All of the pros taller than you? Like, even the really really tall ones?

But... standover goes from miles to maybe just over an inch. I wish that were not the case, although i know it is acceptable.

In all seriousness, why do you care at all how much standover there is? What's wrong with an inch of standover?


(That said, 69.5cm saddle height is very low for a 54. Sounds like your only problem with a 51 is that you've already bought a very short Darimo. TBH, whether you're judging by how much standover there is or whether your existing seatpost fits they're both very odd ways to decide on which size of bike you should get )

[RocketRacing]

Of note, all the pros taller than me, riding felt, ride size 51 bikes...

All of the pros taller than you? Like, even the really really tall ones?

But... standover goes from miles to maybe just over an inch. I wish that were not the case, although i know it is acceptable.

In all seriousness, why do you care at all how much standover there is? What's wrong with an inch of standover?


(That said, 69.5cm saddle height is very low for a 54. Sounds like your only problem with a 51 is that you've already bought a very short Darimo. TBH, whether you're judging by how much standover there is or whether your existing seatpost fits they're both very odd ways to decide on which size of bike you should get )

I should say that all the pros riding size 51 felt fr frames were 2-3inches taller than me.

Yup... my seat post was part of my decision on frame size. But one of many factors in the decision, so lets clarify that.

Standover was not a decision at all. Hell, my 51 felt ia top tube is very close, my small giant tcx is close also (flat top tubes for both). Both of those are fine and i would not want to go any smaller... mainly due to my reach requirements on the ia, and toe overlap on the giant.

I actually kind of completly ignored standover on the 54... until i got the used frame and realized how much higher it was. Still lower than my ia, and even giant, but much higher than my 51 f series.

I tried a 54 because slammed, it gave me the same stack as i had on my 51 f series with 2cm spacers. I could slam that bike also, but my hands would go numb, so i was looking for taller without spacers. A 51fr was 0.5cm too low slammed up front, although an adjusted stem angle would solve that. And then the 51 was 0.5cm too low in the back.

In the end, i think the 54 would be fine... but it kind of eats at me for a strange reason i can not describe. Another answer is to move the f series to the trainer (custom post too), and get a more standard 300mm darimo post for the 51 fr.

A new darimo post is Not a huge deal, but in buying a used fr frame (to save $$$), i already overlooked that i had to get a bb386 crank (red...), as the f series was bb30. I also knew i would need a direct mount rear brake for chainstays. I had ee brakes on the f series. So my cheap frame would cost me 1500-2000$ to make right. Oops. Don’t tell the wife...

Plus swapping the 54 for a 51 will cost me return shipping...

Oh my

[Karvalo]

Standover was not a decision at all. Hell, my 51 felt ia top tube is very close, my small giant tcx is close also (flat top tubes for both).

Ah ok. You can understand why it seemed like it was though, since you mentioned it more times than any other factor in your OP

In the end, i think the 54 would be fine... but it kind of eats at me for a strange reason i can not describe. Another answer is to move the f series to the trainer (custom post too), and get a more standard 300mm darimo post for the 51 fr.

Probably just becuse it looks a little odd with the saddle so low. But hey, what can you do? Not everyone has the same proportions. If it gets the bars where you want them just roll with it.

That said, it doesn't sound like you have a massive amount of drop on the bike, so it might be worth looking into other fit related reasons why you're so prone to hand numbness if you go a bit lower.

[RocketRacing]

Standover was not a decision at all. Hell, my 51 felt ia top tube is very close, my small giant tcx is close also (flat top tubes for both).

Ah ok. You can understand why it seemed like it was though, since you mentioned it more times than any other factor in your OP

In the end, i think the 54 would be fine... but it kind of eats at me for a strange reason i can not describe. Another answer is to move the f series to the trainer (custom post too), and get a more standard 300mm darimo post for the 51 fr.

Probably just becuse it looks a little odd with the saddle so low. But hey, what can you do? Not everyone has the same proportions. If it gets the bars where you want them just roll with it.

That said, it doesn't sound like you have a massive amount of drop on the bike, so it might be worth looking into other fit related reasons why you're so prone to hand numbness if you go a bit lower.

Well, to clarify further, i thought about standover with the 54 frame... but not enough until i got it. Felt measures standover on the tt above the bb. I was fine, but require/use a saddle forward position, combined with a long lupina saddle, pushing the effective standover up on a 54. That was not apparent until i stood over it. I am looking into a berk dila saddle as one possible solution. Mind you, i still have about an inch of clearance.

The hand numbness thing is all of a bit of a mess to sort out. My bars were lower, and i increased my reach and reduced the drop by a cm each way... and it was sorted. After a good month on my new tt bike... the road bike felt “off.” I figured it was just getting used to swapping from tt back to road positioning. I then started to get a flare of old right knee pain/clicking, hand numbness, and realized that my saddle had slid back a cm or two (darimo dyneema clamping mechanism). I have since corrected it, but i am unsure when it slid back. I presume it was gradual, or maybe sudden when i hit a bad bump.

But yeah, i am in need of a pro bike fit. For both bikes really. Sadly, there are no local pros.

Here is the 54 btw. Just note that this is a -10degree stem and i need -17 to hit the position on my old bike. This is also an old 3t stem acting as a placeholder. The saddle is too tilted and The saddle forward/aft is only an estimate as there are no cranks on yet.

I am still torn for swapping this frame for the 51. I suspect a 0.5cm lower saddle on the 51 will be a non issue, especially since the front will also be lower by 0.5. If it is, i will get a longer post made over the winter, and the old f series and custom post will go on the trainer.

But i am also less concerened about a low position on the fr, as it will be my pure climbing bike. I really need to be focusing on a powerful position. The ia will be used for speeds on anything near flat, and an eventual ar will be my allrounder. I no longer will need to make my fr or f series an allrounder.

[RocketRacing]

Back to the hand numbness and knee pain. The darimo post is zero offset, allowing a nice knee over spindle position. But i wonder if that is part of why i have numbness on my hands with longer rides as i support too much weight up front (i ride in a very low position, hood use is rare). Dogma is put the seat back as you go lower.

I did the hogg method of saddle position also and ignored spindle to knee, but kind of felt balanced in most positions under power. I need to experiment more with long rides and hand numbness.

I also wonder about a 165mm crank. But i am all over the fitting map right now.

Here is my more recient fittment on my f series.

[Bigger Gear]

Hand numbness/hand pressure can be influenced by saddle position greatly. You may want to trial your saddle angle with a bit more nose up. This will shift your weight back and reduce pressure and fatigue in the arms and hands. Of course this only works if you can tolerate the increase in perineal pressure. If you go nose up a bit also maybe go down 2-3 mm.

[Karvalo]

If you send most of the time in the drops I would also roll the bars down a bit and move the hoods back up. Looks like they're in a better position for tops than drops right now.