Creaking Colnago C64

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peel83
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:03 pm

by peel83

Hi all,

I've recently built up (well my LBS has) a new Colnago C64. By about the second or third ride, I noticed some creaking which appeared to be coming from BB area. I took it back to the shop and they checked everything and couldn't isolate the creak. So took it to a second shop who also struggled to find the cause. The BB is a Ceramicspeed T45 which has was replaced and this initially solved the creaking, but after around 5hrs of riding, the creak returned. So my thinking is that this has happened twice now - once when new and again once a new BB installed. It's as if the threadfit BB is coming loose. But both bike shops have got it tight as they can.

I've read some other posts and seen mention of loctite. However I saw "Calnago" mention that Colnago recommend a dry install so this shouldn't be needed. By LBS also felt that loctite wasn't a good idea.

Does anybody (hopefully Calnago can ship in again) have any insight here as to what might be the issue? Both bike shops have gone through other potential causes of the creak, including replacing chainring bolts etc.

Thanks in advance!

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Calnago
Posts: 8608
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Good morning @peel83. First, the BB...
The original Threadfit cups themselves should be properly torqued into the shell (I realize you’ve replaced yours with a Ceramic Speed option so this is just fyi). . Getting them “tight as they can” concerns me a bit. Hopefully they have the proper tool to fit the cups. Also, I would use low strength loctite 222 here. I’ve experimented with Morgan Blue Aquaproof Paste here just to prevent corrosion etc and so far so good. But if you think that’s where the creaking is coming from, use loctite 222 (Purple).
The recommendation of a dry install is just for pressing in Campy cups (anodized and very round with exacting tolerances) to the Threadfit cups (also very good with respect to anodization and tolerances. That is not applicable to your Ceramic Speed option. Which one did you go for? What crank are you using?
But, in your case sounds like you’ve removed the Threadfit cups and replaced them with a Ceramic Speed BB. So, using loctite still applies and so does proper torque. Doesn’t sound like your LBS has done much checking as to how it “should” be done.
I’d be looking at other sources of the creak for sure, unless they screwed the Ceramic Speed BB in dry. If they did, then that needs to come out and be reinstalled.
I’d certainly not rule out other sources for the creek either... what wheels and skewers are you using?
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


peel83
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:03 pm

by peel83

Hi Calnago,

Perhaps "tight as they can" wasn't the best term. They used the proper tool sent by Colnago. The original BB was the Ceramicspeed one. When I said replaced, I just meant, they warrantied it and put a new one in, thinking that was the cause. It's a COLNAGO CERAMICSPEED T45 SRAM GXP BOTTOM BRACKET. I'm using a Sram Red Quard D Zero power meter. Yes, the threadfit cups have come out and Ceramicspeed BB installed. Wheels are Campy Bora WTO 45 (disc) so the skewers that come with that. I've tried with different wheels on the bike which made no difference so I know that's not the cause. I'm certain it's the BB area. Everything else has been checked; headset, seatpost and lots more, but you can hear it coming from the BB quite clearly.

Perhaps this Loctite 222 could be the saviour. I assume it won't mean that the BB will never come out again?!

peel83
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:03 pm

by peel83

Just a note on that tool - they were complaining that it's plastic so not great for getting tight

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Calnago
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by Calnago

So you’ve tried two Ceramic Speed BB’s after removing the original Threadfit cups? The Ceramic Speed option simply removes the interface between the Threadfit cups and whatever cups you might normally use for your crank in a Pressfit BB86 application. So yes, if you think it’s coming from the BB, then I’d take it apart, clean all the threads very well, then apply a light coat of Loctite 222 on the threads and reinstall. The original Threadfit cups from the factory have torque spec of 25-30Nm, don’t know what the spec is for the Ceramic Speed Sram option. And yes, you’ll be able to get it out again. Loctite 222 is a low strength threadlocker. Not sure if there are any spacers etc with the Ceramic Speed T45 option but if there are I’d put a light coat of grease on the faces of those spacers, just in case that might be the source of the creak.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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Calnago
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by Calnago

peel83 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:36 pm
Just a note on that tool - they were complaining that it's plastic so not great for getting tight
Ok, that's a plastic tool from Ceramic Speed you're talking, not Colnago. The tool for the Threadfit Cups from Colnago is metal, and I believe Ceramic Speed decided to make their BB's for T45 with a different spline, which requires a different tool, and so the tool(s) your LBS are using are probably the ones suppied by Ceramic Speed with their BB's. I haven't used them. Don't confuse what Colnago is doing with what Ceramic Speed is doing. Ceramic Speed is an aftermarket BB that screws directly into the threads where the Threadfit cups would ohterwise be. It alleviates the need for appropriate adapter cups for a BB86 shell, which is what Colnago's Threadfit system is.
Here's a set of Threadfit cups that I removed from my C60 when building just to show them...
Image
You've opted to remove those and use the Ceramic Speed option instead. Personally, I prefer to use the Threadfit cups in place and then use whatever adpater is required for the crank being installed for the BB86 interface. I consider the Threadfit cups kind of like a frame protector that Colnago chose to do instead of just providing a raw shell that is prone to wear and tear from inserting/removing BB adapters.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

wilwil
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

Does the noise stop when out of the saddle? If so its the seat post. I not sure that the D shape post and the D shape hole in the frame is all that accurate and slight movement can mean noise that sounds like a BB click. You have to use carbon paste on this interface. Did your CS BB come with a syringe of grease? This needs too be applied when fitting the BB. My CS BB did not. Im not sure Loctite is necessary with at hreaded CS BB and the instructions say use grease on the threads. I used Park anti seize grease.

mag
Posts: 459
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

peel83 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:36 pm
Just a note on that tool - they were complaining that it's plastic so not great for getting tight
Yes that tool is pretty bad. I broke one when trying to unscrew the Campy BB cups from the frame. It snapped easily so even though I had another one I was pretty sure it would snap too when trying again. Fortunately Abbey Bike Tools make a better alternative, even with a threaded hole in the middle so that you can secure the tool using a theaded rod and something to keep it in place (installed from the other side of the BB).

peel83
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:03 pm

by peel83

It still creaks when out of the saddle.

The LBS used grease on the threads but no loctite so interesting that you feel it’s not required.

I guess I could consider ditching the CS BB and use the Colnago cups with an adapter for my Sram crankset?

peel83
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Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:03 pm

by peel83

If I did use those Colnago cups, what BB / adapter would you recommend @Calnago?

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Calnago
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by Calnago

peel83 wrote:It still creaks when out of the saddle.

The LBS used grease on the threads but no loctite so interesting that you feel it’s not required.

I guess I could consider ditching the CS BB and use the Colnago cups with an adapter for my Sram crankset?
@peel83: not sure who you are referring to but to reiterate, the Threadfit threads need something, I’ve used Morgan Blue Aquaproof Paste. A little low strength loctite 222 would be fine too. Or antiseize, which is essentially what the Aquaproof Paste is. If grease was used that’s ok too.
Your Ceramic Speed BB is expensive and it would be a shame if that was the source of your creaking. Don’t confuse the interface between the cups they get pressed into the Threadfit cups with the interface (threaded) between the Threadfit cups (or your Ceramic Speed BB) and the Colnago BB shell with the original Threadfit cups removed.
Last edited by Calnago on Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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Calnago
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by Calnago

peel83 wrote:If I did use those Colnago cups, what BB / adapter would you recommend @Calnago?
I don’t have a recommendation. If you put the Threadfit cups back in, I’d probably just use a simple SRAM adapter for BB86 to gxp. There should be a lot available in all price ranges. It’s really about the install. The Ceramic Speed should be a good BB for you, so I’m not sure what’s going on with that. It alleviates the need to press an adaptor into the Threadfit cups. But over the internet it’s hard to say for sure where that creak is originating from and I’m just taking your word that it’s BB related.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

edwardk
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:30 pm

by edwardk

I went through a similar creaking episode with my C64, and after a great deal of detective work my mechanic finally found the culprit -- the pedal thread insert on one of the crankarms had worked loose and creaked with every revolution. I was so certain that it was a BB problem that I had already ordered a replacement one. I imagine though that my story is the exception that proves the rule.

Edward

Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

I assume you have tried a different wheelset before replacing the bottom bracket? Even a dry end cap on a rear hub can cause a horrible racket.

The list of potential causes of creaking is long. Replacing the bottom bracket would be the last thing I'd do.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

peel83
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:03 pm

by peel83

Yes, I've tried different wheelsets. Different pedals too. 2 staff (each) at 2 bike shops have gone through everything hence why I thought I would message on here. Proving a bit of a mystery...

I agree Calnago that the CS BB is expensive and should work well.

One mechanic even came out for a ride with me and agreed he was sure coming from BB area. You can hear it as you turn the pedals (when putting a decent amount of force through).

by Weenie


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