Red 22, last Sram's mechanical groupset?

[osw000]

Any chance to see any Sram mechanical groupset update in the future? 12 spd?

[TobinHatesYou]

Any chance to see any Sram mechanical groupset update in the future? 12 spd?

Rival sure. Force maybe. Red, doubtful. Good chance a Force or Rival mechanical update will be 1x only.

Frankly I think Shimano should do the same. The difference between 105 and Ultegra mechanical is 170ish grams and that's about it. Ultegra should move to Di2 only and they should just rename mech Ultegra to 105. Bring up everything below to the next level.

[Broady]

I doubt it. Especially with the influx of integrated barstems and internal cabling on the highest end bikes. Routing mech through a lot of these is a nightmare, from both a mechanics and a designers perspective.

[ChiZ01]

I doubt it. Especially with the influx of integrated barstems and internal cabling on the highest end bikes. Routing mech through a lot of these is a nightmare, from both a mechanics and a designers perspective.

dealing with electronic is also a nightmares, the fail rate for etap RD concerns me and there is nothing you can do about it

[wheelsONfire]

I doubt it. Especially with the influx of integrated barstems and internal cabling on the highest end bikes. Routing mech through a lot of these is a nightmare, from both a mechanics and a designers perspective.

dealing with electronic is also a nightmares, the fail rate for etap RD concerns me and there is nothing you can do about it

What fail rate, have you any link(s)?

[jasonh]

I hope they do 12speed mechanical groups using the new double cranksets with smaller chainrings, and I hope Shimano and Campy both follow suit.

[alcatraz]

Other than looking cool and being new, 12s systems offer a vanishingly small advantage. I'd happily keep hunting for nicely priced red22 groups if that's my taste. For weekend warrior rides or for racing.

[AnkitS]

Frankly I think Shimano should do the same. The difference between 105 and Ultegra mechanical is 170ish grams and that's about it. Ultegra should move to Di2 only and they should just rename mech Ultegra to 105. Bring up everything below to the next level.

I disagree with this. From experience, people don't want 105, they associate it with entry-level and cheap; even though it is pretty much the exact same groupset as Ultegra. Get rid of dura-ace mechanical, and Tiagra. I do agree that there is too much overlap in the Shimano groupset lineup so this is my idea. Move 105 down to tiagra level pricing and move down to sora down to claris. This gets rid of claris and tiagra reducing the overlap on the bottom.

9170 & 9150: Racing and getting paid to race
8070, 8020, 8050, 8000: Club rider, amateur racer, second bike type thing.
7020/6020, 7000/6000: Super nice first bike, crit bike, winter bike type thing.
Sora/Claris: Entry-level Shimano groupset.

[TobinHatesYou]

The problem with scaling 105 pricing back is it reinforces the consumer sentiment of it being undesirable. Shimano doesn't want that...they would rather legitimize 105 further by making it more premium.

[AnkitS]

The problem with scaling 105 pricing back is it reinforces the consumer sentiment of it being undesirable. Shimano doesn't want that...they would rather legitimize 105 further by making it more premium.

Yes but you have no idea how many times a day I see MAMILS saying they don't want 105 because their buddies have ultegra and they don't want to stick out. They test ride it and say it feels cheaper. Maybe it's just where I work or area where we live.

Current Ultegra and 105 are as identical as possible without purging one of the two. People who buy 105 are buying their first bike and want something that is a good value for money. People buying their second bike do not buy 105, at least from what I have seen. Moving 105 down to tiagra pricing makes the buy-in for a first bike cheaper.

Just my opinion from what I have seen.

[TobinHatesYou]

If you take away mech Ultegra, they'll have no choice but to buy 105 (just Ultegra mechanical renamed) or bump up to UDi2. I don't see that as a loss for the LBS or Shimano really. There's no SRAM or Campy alternative. Force 22 is being phased out. Force AXS more expensive than UDi2. Potenza isn't OE on anything really.