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Re: Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:03 pm
by MoPho
icantaffordcycling wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:11 am

Let me rephrase for you then. If you want to compare 10 y/o disc brake technology compare it with this:

Image


Spoon brake works good enough, caliper brakes just add complexity and more maintenance



Bluechip wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:51 pm
Just imagine that penny farthing with disc brakes!
Image

Re: Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:03 pm
by Weenie

Re: Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:15 pm
by M4lukz
Why is that a thing???? I have so many questions...

Re: Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:17 pm
by TobinHatesYou
M4lukz wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:15 pm

Why is that a thing???? I have so many questions...

Read the text at the bottom.

Re: Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:32 pm
by LiquidCooled
okimy wrote:
Meanwhile at the pro level I think given the choice it would be an even harder sell than it has been
Similar to how you don't see MotoGP or car racers using ABS braking even with all it touted benefits
They just don't need it
100% sure F1 (the pinnacle of motorsport!) had ABS, traction control and much more at some point before it was banned. Just can't remember exactly when. If you're interested you can google it.
In F1, ABS, traction control, adjustable (while driving) suspensions, slick tires, and many other technologies have been banned over the years because they were too effective. They made the cars too easy to drive and/or too fast. The one big exception is the sequential/automatic gearboxes. Their primary benefit is engine reliability (no mis-shifts), which is a huge concern for F1 in the quest to reduce costs. The secondary benefit is performance.

Re: Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:50 pm
by TobinHatesYou
LiquidCooled wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:32 pm

In F1, ABS, traction control, adjustable (while driving) suspensions, slick tires, and many other technologies have been banned over the years because they were too effective. They made the cars too easy to drive and/or too fast. The one big exception is the sequential/automatic gearboxes. Their primary benefit is engine reliability (no mis-shifts), which is a huge concern for F1 in the quest to reduce costs. The secondary benefit is performance.

F1 did ban fully automatic shifting in the early 2000s. For a brief period, the likes of Hakkinen, Coulthard, Schumacher x2, etc. didn't even need to use paddles.

Re: Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:34 pm
by RedbullFiXX
The list of banned tech in F1 - is greater than what is allowed
Looking forward to Carbon Ceramic, Ti, Graphene, whatever tech to further improve our disc brake performance :thumbup:

Re: Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:35 pm
by neeb
Bluechip wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:51 pm
Just imagine that penny farthing with disc brakes!
Or disc brake. Not sure there would be much point in braking the rear wheel.. :D

But you'd need to have the rotor surrounding the crank.. Maybe a little too close to your ankle for comfort..?

Re: Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:25 pm
by jasjas
RedbullFiXX wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:34 pm
The list of banned tech in F1 - is greater than what is allowed
Looking forward to Carbon Ceramic, Ti, Graphene, whatever tech to further improve our disc brake performance :thumbup:
Disc work so well on MTB because of fat tires, heavier wheels/tires, lower C of G and that lock ups are used to go quicker!

I think road tire tech needs to improve significantly first.

Re: Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:47 pm
by RedbullFiXX
jasjas wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:25 pm
RedbullFiXX wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:34 pm
The list of banned tech in F1 - is greater than what is allowed
Looking forward to Carbon Ceramic, Ti, Graphene, whatever tech to further improve our disc brake performance :thumbup:
Disc work so well on MTB because of fat tires, heavier wheels/tires, lower C of G and that lock ups are used to go quicker!

I think road tire tech needs to improve significantly first.
Improvements can be made in areas aside from outright stopping power
Lighter weight, better feel, more room between pads and rotors, more durable rotors/pads, etc

Rim brakes have a lot of power, for a short period, compared to disc brakes

I would be happy to compare this with any rim brake riders on a 15-20% decent at speed :mrgreen:

Re: Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:19 am
by flying
okimy wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:34 pm
Meanwhile at the pro level I think given the choice it would be an even harder sell than it has been
Similar to how you don't see MotoGP or car racers using ABS braking even with all it touted benefits
They just don't need it
100% sure F1 (the pinnacle of motorsport!) had ABS, traction control and much more at some point before it was banned. Just can't remember exactly when. If you're interested you can google it.

Gonna pass on that....F1 is more like trains that cannot pass each other on the same set of tracks :lol: Actually I did like it many years ago when it was interesting competitive per drivers not $$$

Lets say just MotoGP or Superbikes then
But all that aside it was just a side point mention of a technology that did not suit pro ranks

Again for those that want disc good that it is available & for those that don't well probably
no worries there either :beerchug:

Re: Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:42 am
by kevinw
It's funny how people get so emotional about this.

In my view disc brakes are better but they weren't worth the extra £500 or so to me when I was in the market for my new bike.

My next bike may well be disc but braking just isn't something I need improving

Aesthetically I actually prefer the look of discs, especially how they allow for more internal cables - just not a priority for me personally.

It does seem that the transition to disc on road bikes is been driven by a push by manufacturers rather than just a "pull" from consumers - which is why people are getting frustrated in my view.

Re: Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:46 am
by demoCRIT
kevinw wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:42 am
...

It does seem that the transition to disc on road bikes is been driven by a push by manufacturers rather than just a "pull" from consumers - which is why people are getting frustrated in my view.
well said. This sums it up pretty well for me.

Re: Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:28 pm
by neeb
kevinw wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:42 am
Aesthetically I actually prefer the look of discs, especially how they allow for more internal cables - just not a priority for me personally.
It can look OK on ultra-aero focussed frames, but much less so on slender-tubed lightweights IMO. It's not so much the rotors themselves as the calipers that really look like bolted-on carbuncles.. And the overbuilt front wheels with lots of cross laced spokes..

Re: Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:14 pm
by RedbullFiXX
neeb wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:28 pm
kevinw wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:42 am
Aesthetically I actually prefer the look of discs, especially how they allow for more internal cables - just not a priority for me personally.
It can look OK on ultra-aero focussed frames, but much less so on slender-tubed lightweights IMO. It's not so much the rotors themselves as the calipers that really look like bolted-on carbuncles.. And the overbuilt front wheels with lots of cross laced spokes..
Funny that, Rim brakes hanging off forks and seat stays look more like barnacles to a lot of us

Re: Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:19 pm
by TheRich
RedbullFiXX wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:14 pm
neeb wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:28 pm
kevinw wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:42 am
Aesthetically I actually prefer the look of discs, especially how they allow for more internal cables - just not a priority for me personally.
It can look OK on ultra-aero focussed frames, but much less so on slender-tubed lightweights IMO. It's not so much the rotors themselves as the calipers that really look like bolted-on carbuncles.. And the overbuilt front wheels with lots of cross laced spokes..
Funny that, Rim brakes hanging off forks and seat stays look more like barnacles to a lot of us
Yup.

Integrated rim brakes do look hot, but a disk caliper looks cleaner than an exposed rim caliper. Especially since most hoses are routed internally through the fork or chainstay while cables are always hanging around looking goofy and obvious.

Re: Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:19 pm
by Weenie