Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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TheRich
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

okimy wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:34 pm
Meanwhile at the pro level I think given the choice it would be an even harder sell than it has been
Similar to how you don't see MotoGP or car racers using ABS braking even with all it touted benefits
They just don't need it
100% sure F1 (the pinnacle of motorsport!) had ABS, traction control and much more at some point before it was banned. Just can't remember exactly when. If you're interested you can google it.
You're assuming a desire to learn new things.

MoPho
Posts: 560
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:48 pm
Location: NorCal

by MoPho

icantaffordcycling wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:11 am

Let me rephrase for you then. If you want to compare 10 y/o disc brake technology compare it with this:

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Spoon brake works good enough, caliper brakes just add complexity and more maintenance



Bluechip wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:51 pm
Just imagine that penny farthing with disc brakes!
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M4lukz
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:41 am

by M4lukz

Why is that a thing???? I have so many questions...

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4881
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

M4lukz wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:15 pm

Why is that a thing???? I have so many questions...

Read the text at the bottom.

LiquidCooled
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:46 am

by LiquidCooled

okimy wrote:
Meanwhile at the pro level I think given the choice it would be an even harder sell than it has been
Similar to how you don't see MotoGP or car racers using ABS braking even with all it touted benefits
They just don't need it
100% sure F1 (the pinnacle of motorsport!) had ABS, traction control and much more at some point before it was banned. Just can't remember exactly when. If you're interested you can google it.
In F1, ABS, traction control, adjustable (while driving) suspensions, slick tires, and many other technologies have been banned over the years because they were too effective. They made the cars too easy to drive and/or too fast. The one big exception is the sequential/automatic gearboxes. Their primary benefit is engine reliability (no mis-shifts), which is a huge concern for F1 in the quest to reduce costs. The secondary benefit is performance.
2017 Giant TCR Advanced Pro 0 Disc
2003 Cannondale R1000 (CAAD7)

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4881
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

LiquidCooled wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:32 pm

In F1, ABS, traction control, adjustable (while driving) suspensions, slick tires, and many other technologies have been banned over the years because they were too effective. They made the cars too easy to drive and/or too fast. The one big exception is the sequential/automatic gearboxes. Their primary benefit is engine reliability (no mis-shifts), which is a huge concern for F1 in the quest to reduce costs. The secondary benefit is performance.

F1 did ban fully automatic shifting in the early 2000s. For a brief period, the likes of Hakkinen, Coulthard, Schumacher x2, etc. didn't even need to use paddles.

RedbullFiXX
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:13 am

by RedbullFiXX

The list of banned tech in F1 - is greater than what is allowed
Looking forward to Carbon Ceramic, Ti, Graphene, whatever tech to further improve our disc brake performance :thumbup:
Cyclocross, in general, is about riding the wrong bike for the conditions.

neeb
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:19 pm

by neeb

Bluechip wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:51 pm
Just imagine that penny farthing with disc brakes!
Or disc brake. Not sure there would be much point in braking the rear wheel.. :D

But you'd need to have the rotor surrounding the crank.. Maybe a little too close to your ankle for comfort..?

jasjas
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:15 am

by jasjas

RedbullFiXX wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:34 pm
The list of banned tech in F1 - is greater than what is allowed
Looking forward to Carbon Ceramic, Ti, Graphene, whatever tech to further improve our disc brake performance :thumbup:
Disc work so well on MTB because of fat tires, heavier wheels/tires, lower C of G and that lock ups are used to go quicker!

I think road tire tech needs to improve significantly first.

RedbullFiXX
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:13 am

by RedbullFiXX

jasjas wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:25 pm
RedbullFiXX wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:34 pm
The list of banned tech in F1 - is greater than what is allowed
Looking forward to Carbon Ceramic, Ti, Graphene, whatever tech to further improve our disc brake performance :thumbup:
Disc work so well on MTB because of fat tires, heavier wheels/tires, lower C of G and that lock ups are used to go quicker!

I think road tire tech needs to improve significantly first.
Improvements can be made in areas aside from outright stopping power
Lighter weight, better feel, more room between pads and rotors, more durable rotors/pads, etc

Rim brakes have a lot of power, for a short period, compared to disc brakes

I would be happy to compare this with any rim brake riders on a 15-20% decent at speed :mrgreen:
Cyclocross, in general, is about riding the wrong bike for the conditions.

flying
Posts: 2115
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

okimy wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:34 pm
Meanwhile at the pro level I think given the choice it would be an even harder sell than it has been
Similar to how you don't see MotoGP or car racers using ABS braking even with all it touted benefits
They just don't need it
100% sure F1 (the pinnacle of motorsport!) had ABS, traction control and much more at some point before it was banned. Just can't remember exactly when. If you're interested you can google it.

Gonna pass on that....F1 is more like trains that cannot pass each other on the same set of tracks :lol: Actually I did like it many years ago when it was interesting competitive per drivers not $$$

Lets say just MotoGP or Superbikes then
But all that aside it was just a side point mention of a technology that did not suit pro ranks

Again for those that want disc good that it is available & for those that don't well probably
no worries there either :beerchug:

kevinw
Posts: 133
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:49 pm

by kevinw

It's funny how people get so emotional about this.

In my view disc brakes are better but they weren't worth the extra £500 or so to me when I was in the market for my new bike.

My next bike may well be disc but braking just isn't something I need improving

Aesthetically I actually prefer the look of discs, especially how they allow for more internal cables - just not a priority for me personally.

It does seem that the transition to disc on road bikes is been driven by a push by manufacturers rather than just a "pull" from consumers - which is why people are getting frustrated in my view.

demoCRIT
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:04 pm

by demoCRIT

kevinw wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:42 am
...

It does seem that the transition to disc on road bikes is been driven by a push by manufacturers rather than just a "pull" from consumers - which is why people are getting frustrated in my view.
well said. This sums it up pretty well for me.

neeb
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:19 pm

by neeb

kevinw wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:42 am
Aesthetically I actually prefer the look of discs, especially how they allow for more internal cables - just not a priority for me personally.
It can look OK on ultra-aero focussed frames, but much less so on slender-tubed lightweights IMO. It's not so much the rotors themselves as the calipers that really look like bolted-on carbuncles.. And the overbuilt front wheels with lots of cross laced spokes..

RedbullFiXX
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:13 am

by RedbullFiXX

neeb wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:28 pm
kevinw wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:42 am
Aesthetically I actually prefer the look of discs, especially how they allow for more internal cables - just not a priority for me personally.
It can look OK on ultra-aero focussed frames, but much less so on slender-tubed lightweights IMO. It's not so much the rotors themselves as the calipers that really look like bolted-on carbuncles.. And the overbuilt front wheels with lots of cross laced spokes..
Funny that, Rim brakes hanging off forks and seat stays look more like barnacles to a lot of us
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Cyclocross, in general, is about riding the wrong bike for the conditions.

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