Disc brakes: your greatest dreams, and fears confirmed.

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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neeb
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by neeb

icantaffordcycling wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:25 am
Lewn777 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:01 am
Yep, and brakes still squeel and howl in certain conditions depending on manufacturer.
I haven't worked on a single SRAM, Shimano, or Campagnolo hydro disc setup that I couldn't fix the squeal and howl of. I am not even that good of a mechanic.

Have you used single-pivot rim brakes? Have you used super cheap pads? U-Brakes? You are essentially saying that disc brakes squeal and howl because of wrong or obsolete component choice, however, that same argument can be made towards rim brakes.

Try to come up with a real argument sometime. :thumbup:
It's a question of degree. Both rim and disc brakes can squeal when setup incorrectly and both require a certain amount of technical knowledge and attention. But rim brakes require less expertise to maintain and have a considerably higher squeal-threshhold (i.e. they are much less likely to squeal given mildly suboptimal maintenance). Incidentally, my rear single-pivot Campagnolo rim brakes don't squeal.

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

neeb wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:28 am
It's a question of degree. Both rim and disc brakes can squeal when setup incorrectly and both require a certain amount of technical knowledge and attention. But rim brakes require less expertise to maintain and have a considerably higher squeal-threshhold (i.e. they are much less likely to squeal given mildly suboptimal maintenance). Incidentally, my rear single-pivot Campagnolo rim brakes don't squeal.

https://youtu.be/BkGe35QKeGc

Are we just going to ignore that some textured braketracks make eeeeeee or peeeew tea kettle sounds + Doppler-esque effect wet or dry, under light or hard braking? Mavic and ENVE’s braketracks in particular...Reynolds too. Zipp’s Showstopper is a bit quieter, but they all make more noise than my SRAM HRD calipers + SRAM Centerline X rotors + SwissStop Disc RS pads. My brakes are effectively silent except when occasional grit creates a scraping sound at extremely low speed.

Or are those “cool” sounding noises and therefore fine?
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86


C36 wrote:


I haven’t yet seen anyone who compared (like I did, or some other pro/amateur testers did) the same bike with the two different braking systems telling me “the disc brake rides better”. I am sure people do enjoy their disc bikes, I hear the feed backs “i like the breaking system it suits me” but that fall short to say “it’s must then be superior bike” cause again, you ride a bike not a pair of brakes.






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I've owned Tarmac disc and rim brake bikes and prefered the disc brake, I've owned matching Allez rim and disc brake bikes and prefer the disc bike. I own an SL6 rim brake bike simply so I can ride an AirHub and still prefer the Disc brakes SL6s I've ridden.

Set up properly they're just nicer to ride, less effort braking and easier wheel swaps... People on this board praise the stiffness of Lightweight wheels but claim Disc frames are too stiff. It's madness.

And yes I'm 82kg so no I don't have the insight to what a 60kg rider experiences on rim brakes, the only person I ride with who doesn't prefer their disk brakes for daily duties is Wooksti and that's because he is a grouchy technophobe without them ;)

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Calnago
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by Calnago

TobinHatesYou wrote: Or are those “cool” sounding noises and therefore fine?
Yes, those are cool sounds. Image
Seriously though, yes, most rim brake tracks have some sort of noise associated with them when braking as well. Some are cool (Campy, of course Image ), some not so cool (like the measly mousy sound in that video you posted).
As long as it’s not from improper setup (screeeech), then it’s up to you whether you’re ok with the normal sounds, be they from disc or rim, or not. What is unacceptable to me are those screeches that scare small children, most women, and the occasional rim brake user out for a pleasant walk. Someone mentioned “horse scarers” somewhere in this thread. Mostly I think that sound really is primarily a disc thing. Especially in the cooler moist weather, despite setup. Mr. Gib pointed out a very real thing earlier with discs that we experience regularly here in the PNW. Once they’re dry and a little warm, they’re fine. But on many rides you ride for quite a while between braking, so they never stay dry and heated for very long and it’s like stopping for the first time, everytime, and voila... you get the tell tale sound of screeching wet cold disc brakes. Plus, the pads themselves are so very close to the rotors that in grimy weather you’re pretty much blessed with that ever present yet ever so slight sound of whatever it is that’s slightly grinding. It’s slight, but it’s there. And contamination happens very easily on disc brakes. You can ride rim brakes all gummed up all winter long if you like and no big deal really, but always a good idea to clean them up every now and then.
Every brake is going to make some noise, regardless of whether it’s disc or rim. But for sure, discs have brought a new level of noise to the Fall group rides, especially out in the valley where stops are infrequent.
I remember a long time ago someone was raving about discs and I mentioned I didn’t like the sound. He said his were perfectly fine except for the nice sound of metal on metal. I replied “Yes, that’s it, that’s the sound I hate”. Nails on a chalkboard.
This is such a great thread. I really don’t mind that everyone wants discs and I say, have at it. I’m here to bleed, adjust, clean and keep those babies running, for a price of course. I need to find my retirement somehow, and I love working on bikes. Because like someone else said, a lot of riders with the latest stuff don’t have a clue how to maintain or do the the most minor of brake adjustments, let alone bleed the hydraulics or keep up with a regular regimen of cleaning/decontaminating those rotors. They need me, or someone like me. I like to feel needed. My cat ignores me. T-shirts anyone?
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

My disc setup doesn’t squeal even in pouring rain (and I attribute this mostly to the SwissStop RS compound.)

This guy’s rim-brakes are whistling at points: https://youtu.be/F2HS6Lmtp5Y

So if both systems make awful noises when horribly set up, discs are silent when correctly set up, but rim-brakes make “cool” noises-and-that’s-ok, then why the scrutiny on disc squeal?

Wookski
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by Wookski

Nefarious86 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:11 am

And yes I'm 82kg so no I don't have the insight to what a 60kg rider experiences on rim brakes, the only person I ride with who doesn't prefer their disk brakes for daily duties is Wooksti and that's because he is a grouchy technophobe without them ;)

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Technophobe? WTF? I'm now riding Bora WTO's with GP5K tubeless thank you! Everyone knows that disc brakes are for fatties. Considering how lean you are these days I would have expected your position on MTB brakes for road bikes to have changed.

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

Man I can be fat again by tomorrow if nee be haha

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by Nefarious86

TobinHatesYou wrote:My disc setup doesn’t squeal even in pouring rain (and I attribute this mostly to the SwissStop RS compound.)

This guy’s rim-brakes are whistling at points: https://youtu.be/F2HS6Lmtp5Y

So if both systems make awful noises when horribly set up, discs are silent when correctly set up, but rim-brakes make “cool” noises-and-that’s-ok, then why the scrutiny on disc squeal?
Because it fits the stupidity of their argument.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:26 am
My disc setup doesn’t squeal even in pouring rain (and I attribute this mostly to the SwissStop RS compound.)

This guy’s rim-brakes are whistling at points: https://youtu.be/F2HS6Lmtp5Y

So if both systems make awful noises when horribly set up, discs are silent when correctly set up, but rim-brakes make “cool” noises-and-that’s-ok, then why the scrutiny on disc squeal?
That's a cool whistle... didn't watch the whole thing, but campy I believe. Very cool descent as well. Far cry from the screech of disc brakes. I'm happy that yours NEVER make a sound, but I don't believe you for a second. And you are one, I'm talking about riders on average, not the one guy in the group who got up early to meticulously clean his rotors so he could hopefully not be "that guy' on the ride. Unfortunately, there's lot of "those guys" that don't seem to have quiet disc brakes it seems. How many different rotors and pads have you been through since being on disc brakes in search of something acceptably quiet? Or do you change them just for fun all the time? If a system works well from the get go, I've very little incentive to be changing it out all the time, especially brakes. And, you are in California right? Not that it doesn't rain there or ever get cold, but I'm not sure that's the best test bed for cold wet weather over the long term. And on a serious note... I do hope that everyone in California close to any of those raging wildifires going on right now is staying safe. Looks crazy dangerous in spots down there right now. That video has been playing in the background as I type this. Sounds fine to me. I'm not going to, but I'm sure I could google some good examples of screeching discs if I wanted. Cuz you can find anything on google, as you know. But no, that video you present was fun to watch, and he did use, rightfully so, his brakes alot, and the sound didn't bug me. I want to go there.
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Calnago wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:05 am
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:26 am
My disc setup doesn’t squeal even in pouring rain (and I attribute this mostly to the SwissStop RS compound.)

This guy’s rim-brakes are whistling at points: https://youtu.be/F2HS6Lmtp5Y

So if both systems make awful noises when horribly set up, discs are silent when correctly set up, but rim-brakes make “cool” noises-and-that’s-ok, then why the scrutiny on disc squeal?
That's a cool whistle... didn't watch the whole thing, but campy I believe. Very cool descent as well. Far cry from the screech of disc brakes. I'm happy that yours NEVER make a sound, but I don't believe you for a second. And you are one, I'm talking about riders on average, not the one guy in the group who got up early to meticulously clean his rotors so he could hopefully not be "that guy' on the ride. Unfortunately, there's lot of "those guys" that don't seem to have quiet disc brakes it seems. How many different rotors and pads have you been through since being on disc brakes in search of something acceptably quiet? Or do you change them just for fun all the time? If a system works well from the get go, I've very little incentive to be changing it out all the time, especially brakes. And, you are in California right? Not that it doesn't rain there or ever get cold, but I'm not sure that's the best test bed for cold wet weather over the long term. And on a serious note... I do hope that everyone in California close to any of those raging wildifires going on right now is staying safe. Looks crazy dangerous in spots down there right now. That video has been playing in the background as I type this. Sounds fine to me. I'm not going to, but I'm sure I could google some good examples of screeching discs if I wanted. Cuz you can find anything on google, as you know. But no, that video you present was fun to watch, and he did use, rightfully so, his brakes alot, and the sound didn't bug me. I want to go there.

I ride with wheelbuilder IRL. I doubt he’s ever heard a peep from my discs on our weekend club rides. He can also attest they often start off quite cold and damp/foggy...even in the summer months.

Didn’t find that video on Google either. It was featured in a GCN episode. If you check the footage, he passes Dan Lloyd, Tom Last, etc. Haven’t you been told enough times to stop with the Google thing? It’s not even an insult...imagine that, someone searching for answers.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

ok, googling is fine. It’s not like I don’t google a lot of things either. I just googled screeching disc brakes. Seems to be a thing considering how many youtube videos there are showing people how to fix them.
Look, I’m not trying to convince you to give up your discs, not one bit. But when you say they are so much better, I just have to smile and say... ok then.
My real beef with discs, and it isn’t even about the technology, but rather it’s the constant push that manufacturers are engaging in to force discs in the pro peloton, where they are truly not needed and clearly, not even wanted. But they need to be there for marketing purposes. Argh! Lol. I think enough time and resistance has passed and occurred at that level now that even the most gullible have to be saying “Hmmm, it doesn’t seem that discs are really needed at all win the Tour de France”. And that reality is a shame for the marketing departments.
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by TobinHatesYou

Again, you’ll get no argument from me that poor set-up, contamination and weird combos result in squeal or noises. That applies to any brake system. Those textured braketrack noises you get no matter what...I guess we’re fortunate it’s a “cool” sound, so it’s ok.

e: I wonder how much revenue as a percentage the pushy brands get from race bikes...

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Calnago
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by Calnago

TobinHatesYou wrote: e: I wonder how much revenue as a percentage the pushy brands get from race bikes...
The thing is, not much, at least directly from the sale of high end race bikes. It’s a niche market for sure. But from a marketing perspective, the value in having a significant presence in the pro peloton is huge. Marketing is the reason it exists. And it’s a damn thorn in their side that the pros have resisted discs for so long. Just look at the discussions in the Pro Cycling thread. What socks was he wearing. What shoes was he wearing. Discs win!!!! Discs win!!! We finally have a winner, chicken dinner. Lol. You think marketing doesn’t matter?... Think again.
The manufacturers don’t want to keep producing rim brake race bikes for such a small market, for sure. But it’s hard to gain full validation of a technology when the best in the world at the most elite events in the world still, by and large, choose rim brakes when given the choice.
Last edited by Calnago on Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

discs win discs win...

that does not happen as often as... the rim brake/non aero fanboy podium report.
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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

icantaffordcycling wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:25 am
Lewn777 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:01 am
Yep, and brakes still squeel and howl in certain conditions depending on manufacturer.
I haven't worked on a single SRAM, Shimano, or Campagnolo hydro disc setup that I couldn't fix the squeal and howl of. I am not even that good of a mechanic.

Have you used single-pivot rim brakes? Have you used super cheap pads? U-Brakes? You are essentially saying that disc brakes squeal and howl because of wrong or obsolete component choice, however, that same argument can be made towards rim brakes.

Try to come up with a real argument sometime. :thumbup:
Yeah, obviously being like 17 years old you'd know all about the famous 'not squealing?' of SRAM Avid Juicy mountain bike brakes from over 10 years ago. Clearly you were shredding in the woods and hitting doubles on full suspension MTB smoking Js and drinking beers when you were like 5-7 years old. :lol:

by Weenie


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