Rapha Quality
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I've been using Rapha Proteam since 2011. I think they had some issues then but IMO they reach their pinnacle in 2014ish. Not too impressed with my recent purchases. I'll keep buying their jerserys but I think there's better shorts out there for the money.
My main ones are the seams.. Just in the wrong places and / or too abrasive.Loi wrote:Remarkably many point out they aren't happy with the Rapha bibs. What's the issue with those, while jerseys seem to be fine?
The way the pads sit isn't as good as assos.. And nowhere near q36.5. It's not bad.. Just not as good.
I do like their winter tights more.. Just not the bibshorts.
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I'd agree with this. I love my Q36.5 bibs. Chamois is on another level. I think rapha stopped using cytech and started prodcuing their own chamois in the last 5 yrs. I could be wrongsychen wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:42 amMy main ones are the seams.. Just in the wrong places and / or too abrasive.Loi wrote:Remarkably many point out they aren't happy with the Rapha bibs. What's the issue with those, while jerseys seem to be fine?
The way the pads sit isn't as good as assos.. And nowhere near q36.5. It's not bad.. Just not as good.
I do like their winter tights more.. Just not the bibshorts.
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I was thinking about this as well and the point is that when you buy a premiun brand you expect an, at least, good product.
If I compare the Pro Team bibs I've used to 2 other brands I used in the same period, the only decent thing was the pad.
Straps were uncomfortable, classy design but that's it, and the grippers almost no existent.
Very basic fabric overall.
On the other hand big fan of their aero jersey.
Also, the thick exposed stitching on my Pro Team bibs look really cheap compared to other brands now.micky wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:41 pm
I was thinking about this as well and the point is that when you buy a premiun brand you expect an, at least, good product.
If I compare the Pro Team bibs I've used to 2 other brands I used in the same period, the only decent thing was the pad.
Straps were uncomfortable, classy design but that's it, and the grippers almost no existent.
Very basic fabric overall.
On the other hand big fan of their aero jersey.
Q36.5 bibs and Pro Team aero jerseys are my go to kit.
Yup that's me with this combo.velov wrote:Also, the thick exposed stitching on my Pro Team bibs look really cheap compared to other brands now.micky wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:41 pm
I was thinking about this as well and the point is that when you buy a premiun brand you expect an, at least, good product.
If I compare the Pro Team bibs I've used to 2 other brands I used in the same period, the only decent thing was the pad.
Straps were uncomfortable, classy design but that's it, and the grippers almost no existent.
Very basic fabric overall.
On the other hand big fan of their aero jersey.
Q36.5 bibs and Pro Team aero jerseys are my go to kit.
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- Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm
Since it was my first year as an RCC member, I was pleasantly surprised to receive this:
Definitely also a part of "quality".
Definitely also a part of "quality".
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg
*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg
*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7
Does anyone own the new Pro Team Training jersey?
Just wanted to know if there are any issues for bunching. I noticed in stock photos when the model is standing upright (or ppl in reviews), the jersey looks perfect which is a sign this wont sit flush when on the bike position.
Just wanted to know if there are any issues for bunching. I noticed in stock photos when the model is standing upright (or ppl in reviews), the jersey looks perfect which is a sign this wont sit flush when on the bike position.
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- Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:27 am
Bought a pair of pro team bibs last year, generally not terribly impressed. Have had the last 2 gens of Maap Team bibs and they're amazing especially the new one. Pad is super comfy, the grippers are fantastic, and the straps fit well. Literally no complaints.
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I bought a lot of Rapha stuff about 6 years ago because of an employee discount, only now is it starting to show wear. My Proteam bibs have been amazing and the couple of classic jerseys I bought have lasted well, only one now starting to have some stitching come away. After they were taken over by the walmart hiers and reports of their declining quality, I stayed away from Rapha. The stuff I bought since has been OK, (Black Sheep, Attaquer and a few others) but I just don't find it as comfortable. I love the materials used on jerseys like the 'Classic' (Merino blend), it's body hugging but not a second skin which is what I like as I don't race or care if I'm aero. I've decided to test the waters and recently purchased some new proteam bib tights and a core long sleeve jersey, I hope they last as long as my other Rapha stuff!
I've had two pairs of bibs tear in the same spot on the straps, and neither had particularly much mileage on them.
My jerseys have all been rather woeful quality, so will staying away from those.
The pro team winter gear (ca. 2018) was awesome though!
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I worked at Rapha form 2010 to 2019 (nearly 10 years) from when we were a small company right through to the big £100M business it is these days so I know a fair amount about the changing nature of product/quality over the years.
IMO there are a few factors at play:
1. The style of garment the market demands and that Rapha makes is fundamentally less durable than it used to be. Consider the Pro Team Aero Jersey that is ultra-fitted and bonded seams vs the Classic Jersey that is stretchy merino cut-and-sow, one is just made in a more durable way with way less points of fialure. Getting the balance right is tricky and sometimes Rapha does well at this and sometimes other brands do better.
2. Production of bib-shorts has moved form Italy to other Europe, or Asia and they're just less good at it. There's no other way to call it really. There's an art to stitching a chamois into a short that requires just the right amount of tension on the fabric and the Italians have done so many of them they know the art. Other production is getting better but there was defintely a dip in quality there and all brands suffer wiht this.
3. The speed of obsolecense is increasing exponentially in cycling (not just apparel) so a thing like the Softshell jacket we were allowed to itterate slowly over 9 versions until it was really a great piece of kit but now stuff needs to come into the range in year 1, be maxed in year 3 and then exited in year 3. Coinsider a 2 year design/dev cycle and there's almost no chance for itterative improvemnets. This is true of all cycling really; groupsets, frames, wheels, whatever.
4. There's an inherent value propsoition issue with the cycling consumer. They expect everything to be discounted. Always. Becaue it has been, for the last 2 decades. Which means your achieved margin is never really anywhere near your intake margin so there's always a downward pressure on cost whihc means trying to find cheaper and mpre efficient manufacturing baes/processes. I think this trend is being reveresed with Covid but my gut instinct is it will be back once supply/demand reach equilibrium again.
I'm giving up now but there are probably 100 more reasons I could lay out some of which are industry specific and some of which are Rapha specific which I'm not willing to do.
Rapha is still the best out there IMO and when you think about the breadth of range it provides, sure, there's going to be some products that are less good than others but in the round, it's excellent.
IMO there are a few factors at play:
1. The style of garment the market demands and that Rapha makes is fundamentally less durable than it used to be. Consider the Pro Team Aero Jersey that is ultra-fitted and bonded seams vs the Classic Jersey that is stretchy merino cut-and-sow, one is just made in a more durable way with way less points of fialure. Getting the balance right is tricky and sometimes Rapha does well at this and sometimes other brands do better.
2. Production of bib-shorts has moved form Italy to other Europe, or Asia and they're just less good at it. There's no other way to call it really. There's an art to stitching a chamois into a short that requires just the right amount of tension on the fabric and the Italians have done so many of them they know the art. Other production is getting better but there was defintely a dip in quality there and all brands suffer wiht this.
3. The speed of obsolecense is increasing exponentially in cycling (not just apparel) so a thing like the Softshell jacket we were allowed to itterate slowly over 9 versions until it was really a great piece of kit but now stuff needs to come into the range in year 1, be maxed in year 3 and then exited in year 3. Coinsider a 2 year design/dev cycle and there's almost no chance for itterative improvemnets. This is true of all cycling really; groupsets, frames, wheels, whatever.
4. There's an inherent value propsoition issue with the cycling consumer. They expect everything to be discounted. Always. Becaue it has been, for the last 2 decades. Which means your achieved margin is never really anywhere near your intake margin so there's always a downward pressure on cost whihc means trying to find cheaper and mpre efficient manufacturing baes/processes. I think this trend is being reveresed with Covid but my gut instinct is it will be back once supply/demand reach equilibrium again.
I'm giving up now but there are probably 100 more reasons I could lay out some of which are industry specific and some of which are Rapha specific which I'm not willing to do.
Rapha is still the best out there IMO and when you think about the breadth of range it provides, sure, there's going to be some products that are less good than others but in the round, it's excellent.
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Cinelli Supercorsa DA9000
Colnago C64 R12
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Trek L500
Long time supporter of Rapha
Strava
Cannondale CAAD 10 Track
Cielo Classic Sportif U8000
Cinelli Supercorsa DA9000
Colnago C64 R12
Concorde DA7800
DeRosa Nuovo Classico SR12
Eddy Mercks Corsa Extra Ch12
Felt F1 DA9050
Trek L500
Long time supporter of Rapha
Strava