Campagnolo 12 speed cassette compatibility

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
talltales
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:43 pm

by talltales

fehguy wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:17 pm
Hi folks, for those who are interested, I have a 3,000 mile (sorry! 4828 km) update.

First off, shifitng is still perfect. I have never, ever, ever once thrown a chain or had a missed shift. That is miraculous! It is quiet and works beautifully.

Next, the SRAM chain has a MUCH longer life than my old 11speed Campy ones. How do I know? Well, I've become accostomed to changing my chain every 2000 miles (cough 3218km, I'm not doing this anymore!). Each time, I'll lay the old campy chain out next to the new one and look at stretch. Typically it's about 1/4 of a link of stretch (I've done this 5 times now) with the Campy 11 speed chain. The SRAM after 2000 miles was virtually unchanged. I have photos of each of the chains showing their stretch. It's not the most scientific approach but I can say that it has been consistent, and the SRAM chain was remarkably unchanged. I'll start replacing it every 3500 miles instead of 2000.

Finally, I have been so happy with the setup that I splurged on my cross bike, and put on a 10-33 SRAM 12-speed cassette with Super Record shifters and a Chrous super-compact 48-32 crankset. It works just as well.

So while I feel a bit like a heratic running the SRAM cassette and chain on Campy, it is working great. I hope this is helpful to someone!
1/4 link vs the full chain?

A full road chain is about 114 links, give or take. 1/4 link elongation only amounts to 0.22%. Imo there is still some life left in it, unless the rollers are shut.

Not sure what the current prices are, but the cost per mile might be similar even if one (expensive) chain last much longer than the other. A axs red chain would have to last a long time to come down to a resonable $/mile ratio.

by Weenie


DaveS
Posts: 2975
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm

by DaveS

fehguy wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:55 pm
@DaveS I do quite a bit of climbing, 500k ft/year. Maybe that's what is eating my chains. I do keep things clean and lubed, it's definitely not mechanic abuse that's wearing them out.

I started replacing chains more regularily after I wore out my entire drivetrain at 4k miles. Chain broke twice in one day, the chainrings (Campy Super Record 11 OEM) had "shark fin" teeth and it was really expensive. The chain had enlongated an entire 1/2 link (pin-to-pin).
I live in Colorado and also climb a lot. I weigh about 140 lbs, so I probably put less tension on the chain, but I also spend a lot of time in my 32T little ring, that produces more tension.

If I report chain elongation, I do it by percentage or a length increase in inches. A link is .5 inches, not 1 inch. For a typical 55 inch or 110 link chain, .5% is a length increase is .275 inches or just over half a link.

If you think that a link is 1 inch and "an entire 1/2 link is 1/2 inch, then you're talking about nearly 1% elongation, which is far too long to use any one chain. That's an example of poor maintenance.

I use several chains in a rotation and would measure both elongation and roller wear to decide when to toss a chain. When several chains are in use, your cassette and chain rings should all last for the life of all of those chains.

rmba
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:28 am

by rmba

Has anyone tried this the other way around?

i.e. Campy 12sp cassette and chain with SRAM AXS shifters and derailleurs

joeyb1000
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:37 pm

by joeyb1000

rmba wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:01 am
Has anyone tried this the other way around?

i.e. Campy 12sp cassette and chain with SRAM AXS shifters and derailleurs
I'm in the processes of setting a bike up right now.
Background: I'm setting up a travel bike with S&S couplers. All my bikes are Campy 12s. The frame is not drilled for EPS.
I set it up with AXS derailleurs and shifters. Campy 12s 36/52 cranks, cassette and chain with a Sram EAGLE link. So far, on the trainer, it works fine. Istallation was of course faster than Campy, but dial-in time was about the same. Luckily, the cassette sapcing is the same because SRAM cannot adapt to different spacing.

I'll post more after a few rides.

DaveS
Posts: 2975
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm

by DaveS

rmba wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:01 am
Has anyone tried this the other way around?

i.e. Campy 12sp cassette and chain with SRAM AXS shifters and derailleurs
I converted both of my chorus 12 bikes over to partial force axs. On the first bike I use my chorus 48/32 crank with the new 10-36 cassette and AXS chain. That combo works great. I've been using axs chains with my Campy 11-34 cassette for over a year. Also works great.

I left my 11-34 Campy cassette on the second bike and took it out with an axs chain. The shifting was OK, but not as good, so I decided to get a SRAM 10-36 cassette for both bikes and use axs chains exclusively.

The wide RD is not a medium cage, as advertised. It has the same 70mm cage as the standard RD, but a a longer main pivot mount and a 5mm longer B screw. I bought an M4 x 25mm button head screw and ground the head down to match the factory provided screw. On my bike I could clear the 36T without the longer screw, but just barely. As it turns out, the clearance needs to be minimal or it reduce the wrap on the 10-11-12 and create shifting problems.
Last edited by DaveS on Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

robertbb
Posts: 1599
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

But what about the 50-odd posts you wrote saying that the Chorus cassette/chain combo you used (before switching to AXS cassette/chain) was the absolute bestest ever?

You should really track those down and edit them. How else will people know?

DaveS
Posts: 2975
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm

by DaveS

robertbb wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:53 am
But what about the 50-odd posts you wrote saying that the Chorus cassette/chain combo you used (before switching to AXS cassette/chain) was the absolute bestest ever?

You should really track those down and edit them. How else will people know?
You're wrong about that. I started using axs chains on my Campy 12 drivetrains last July. I alternated between Campy 12 and axs chains for over a year. I had four Campy 12 chains and two axs chains. My first ride with an axs was clearly more quiet than the Campy chain. Quiet is good, but so is long chain life. When several chains are used in a rotation, it takes a long time to get much wear on each one. So far the axs chains are holding up well. I sold all of my leftover chorus 12 parts on the paceline forum. Both partial groups sold in less than an hour.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=240471

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=162242&p=1581973#p1581973

You really need to chill out.

rmba
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:28 am

by rmba

Thanks joeyb1000,

I look forward to hearing how you get on in teh longer term.

joeyb1000
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:37 pm

by joeyb1000

As stated above, the setup is a 12s Campy 52/36 crankset, Campy chain and Campy Cassettes. Sram Red AXS levers, derailleurs and rim calipers. Clamp-on front derailleur mount.
As expected, the SRAM AXS system works well. The shifting is as good as Campy EPS or Di2. The Sram shifts might be a little slower, but not enough to make a difference. The Campy Record crankset looks good with the Sram Red components. My only complaint on Sram, other than their decision to use a non-standard chain, is lever comfort. I did improve this by tilting them up so that the top of the lever was at 10-15 degrees. This may not be the case on the disc version.

Compatibility
I found no compatibility issues. Luckily, Sram’s cassette spacing is virtually the same as Campy’s (unlike Campy, Sram cannot “learn” the spacing between the cogs). There was no issue with the 16 tooth jump on the front chainring. I found the front shifting to be excellent, but have dropped the chain a few times (chain catcher on order). Bikes with braze-on FD mounts may be limited to Sram’s 50t maximum chainring. I also had no problem with any of the three cassette sizes, but did adjust the upper pivot screw when using the 11-34. There are conflicting comments floating around on mixing AXS and non-AXS drivetrain components: crank, chain and cassette; but, as expected, Sram’s derailleur is not affected by using a standard roller size chain.

Campy vs Sram
Both work extremely well, and it’s hard to say one is better than the other. They both have a distinctive click, perfect shifting, easy to operate controls even with heavy gloves and the ability to interface to garmin. Sram’s installation time is much shorter (but just as much time dialing in – especially front derailleurs), and the wireless system has obvious advantages for a travel bike. Campy is the clear winner on lever comfort, has longer battery life and can adjust to any cassette.

(Note: all my other bikes are Campy 12s, and I’ve had at least one EPS bike since 2012. This setup is on a Lynskey travel bike with S&S couplers which was not drilled for electronic shifting.)

DaveS
Posts: 2975
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm

by DaveS

I really didn't notice that much difference between the SRAM brake hoods and Campy hoods. I have mine placed at about the same angle - just barely tilted up - as I had my Campy brake hoods. The Force hoods are actually smaller than Campy, with more room between the brake lever and bars, to wrap fingers around. I use the small hands feature with the levers set to the third click - as far in as possible.

With the 10-36 cassette, the Force RD will work with the same 54 inch chain length recommended by Campy for their 11-34, but the B screw position becomes more critical. If the screw is in a little too far, there's not enough chain wrap to make good shifts between the smallest sprockets. A 55 inch chain actually works better, but with a 16T difference at the crank, the wrap is 42T, which exceeds the capacity of the Force RD. The chain will hang loose on a couple of the smallest sprockets and little chain ring, but I never use those combos, so it's not a problem. The RD won't even shift to the small ring and smallest sprocket, by a software limit.

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tommasini
Posts: 1399
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:48 am
Location: Central USA
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by tommasini

I thought I'd drop in this latest information both here and will land this in with another string regarding 12 speed Campagnolo.....a 12-29 cassette is now availalbe.....

For the past 1 1/2 years Recon has offered 11-29 and 11-32 (same 2 ranges as Campagnolo offers) steel mono block cassettes at 178 and 213 grams respectively. Just recently they now have introduced a 12-29 version at a very nice 188 grams. You drop the 11 and get an 18 in it's place. For my 11 speed bike I normally run a 12-25 here in our rolling terrain and drop in a 12-27 when I ride in the rocky mountains. For my 12 speed bike I'll now be able to run a cassette comparable to that nice 12-27 (11 spd) but pickup a bail-out 12th cog in the form of the 29 cog......I've not ever wanted an 11....if I'm descending that fast I'll be in a tuck and not pedaling.

I've done a little sluthing and ignoring the reviews about prior aluminun cassettes by Recon, the handful of reviews I picked up about their steel cassettes have been favorable.

https://www.recon-harry.com.tw/products/1/1

Also, Total Cycling in the UK has them in stock for $212 USD.

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