Road Boost 12x110 (110x12) and Hybrid Road 12x148 (148x12) from DT, Novatec, Shimano

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
mag
Posts: 414
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

My complaint is that they could've come with it with the introduction of road disc & emergence of the gravel bikes already. It isn't like it's something brand new, something requiring massive R&D investments and a lot of time to finalize the development & production processes. Most of it has already been done. It coud be used without a lot of further investments and effort.
But no, just like with the mess around the road disc (remember those first QR solutions, then multiple TA variants coming and going, post-mount frames still being produced years after the flat-mount was already here?) they first sell you some "transitional" product and once they notice the sales go down they come up with a new "standard" to shake things up again. Want to keep/make it simple? Phew! Naive idealist! Besides some 15 like BB standards we'll now bring you some more variations everywhere we can! Some will likely die soon and nobody will then care about them and offer anything for them so your choices will be limited if you bought any of that, but it's your problem...

Marin
Posts: 3531
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

Plus, Cannondale will do an asymmetric Road Boost build for even better incompat... uhh tension balance

by Weenie


joejack951
Posts: 646
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

mag wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:01 pm
My complaint is that they could've come with it with the introduction of road disc & emergence of the gravel bikes already. It isn't like it's something brand new, something requiring massive R&D investments and a lot of time to finalize the development & production processes. Most of it has already been done. It coud be used without a lot of further investments and effort.
But no, just like with the mess around the road disc (remember those first QR solutions, then multiple TA variants coming and going, post-mount frames still being produced years after the flat-mount was already here?) they first sell you some "transitional" product and once they notice the sales go down they come up with a new "standard" to shake things up again. Want to keep/make it simple? Phew! Naive idealist! Besides some 15 like BB standards we'll now bring you some more variations everywhere we can! Some will likely die soon and nobody will then care about them and offer anything for them so your choices will be limited if you bought any of that, but it's your problem...
You've oversimplified things enormously. Basically no bike/component manufacturer is going to try and introduce some new feature that requires a wholesale redesign of nearly every major component on a bike. To go from rim brake, quick release, double crank, skinny tire road bike to hydraulic flat mount, 1X, thru axle boost hubs, fat tire gravel bike is essentially changing everything. Who in the bike industry wields that sort of power?

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 4968
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
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by bm0p700f

This also means I will next year have to drop some coin on a road boost hub. We have only had 12mm TA as a settled standard for 2 years.

ooo
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

Peter Verdone post from January 13, 2019 about 110x12 in 2021 "100x12 should never have existed":

viewtopic.php?f=113&t=155016
The market is currently flooded with fancy 100×12 wheels and exotic forks for road and gravel bikes. Cheap and expensive bikes are the same. Another boondoggle by the marketing idiots and roadies that don’t understand how bicycles work. Almost all of this happened long after mountain bikes had moved to 110mm front spacing. Going to 110×12 spacing was the OBVIOUS choice. The reasons are all the same.

But that’s not what happened. That change is going to happen in 2021 instead. Why? Because it took less effort to do less and make more money on secondary sales for upgrades that should have been stock years earlier.
The 100×12 wheel is 73% as strong pushing to the right and 93% pushing to the left compared to the 100×9 ND wheel.
The 110×12 wheel is 81% as strong pushing to the right and 7% stronger pushing to the left compared to the 100×9 ND wheel.
The 110×12 CL wheel is 12% stronger pushing to the right and 14% stronger pushing to the left compared to the 100×12 CL wheel.

Why is this important? With wheels, we want to use the lightest rims and get the most out of the spok thension that we can. Radial support for a wheel is easy but lateral support isn’t. By paying attention to the working angle of the spoke, we can significantly improve how the wheel performs in corners and when hitting rocks. We want wheels that can perform in extremes and not fail. Essentially, getting free strength from the geometry of the spokes is a simple part of this solution.
Image
'

romanmoser
Posts: 319
Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 8:30 pm

by romanmoser

I think future will show he was right

talltales
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:43 pm

by talltales

ooo wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:50 pm
Peter Verdone post from January 13, 2019 about 110x12 in 2021 "100x12 should never have existed":

viewtopic.php?f=113&t=155016
The market is currently flooded with fancy 100×12 wheels and exotic forks for road and gravel bikes. Cheap and expensive bikes are the same. Another boondoggle by the marketing idiots and roadies that don’t understand how bicycles work. Almost all of this happened long after mountain bikes had moved to 110mm front spacing. Going to 110×12 spacing was the OBVIOUS choice. The reasons are all the same.

But that’s not what happened. That change is going to happen in 2021 instead. Why? Because it took less effort to do less and make more money on secondary sales for upgrades that should have been stock years earlier.
The 100×12 wheel is 73% as strong pushing to the right and 93% pushing to the left compared to the 100×9 ND wheel.
The 110×12 wheel is 81% as strong pushing to the right and 7% stronger pushing to the left compared to the 100×9 ND wheel.
The 110×12 CL wheel is 12% stronger pushing to the right and 14% stronger pushing to the left compared to the 100×12 CL wheel.

Why is this important? With wheels, we want to use the lightest rims and get the most out of the spok thension that we can. Radial support for a wheel is easy but lateral support isn’t. By paying attention to the working angle of the spoke, we can significantly improve how the wheel performs in corners and when hitting rocks. We want wheels that can perform in extremes and not fail. Essentially, getting free strength from the geometry of the spokes is a simple part of this solution.
Image
By this logic a 120x15 is even more logic and even more better.
Last edited by talltales on Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
corky
Posts: 1346
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:53 pm
Location: The Surrey Hills

by corky

The mtbification of road bikes continues unabated....

ooo
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

Some points about PVd post:
- he is only talking about front boost (he is using still 142 rear on his recent projects to make it possible to use road cranks)
- he calculated forces for 32 spoke front wheel, it may be interesting to calculate forces for wheels with 28-24-20 spokes
'

Marin
Posts: 3531
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

Also, aerodynamics aren't relevant to his calculations.

ooo
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

DT jumped on RoadBoost bandwagon:

2020 deep road boost wheels offering (32 mm, 47 mm, 62 mm):

WHE1800BIDXSA10745 = DT Swiss HE 1800 Spline Black db 32 - 29" / 700C Front Wheel - Clincher - Centerlock / 6 Bolt - 12x110mm Boost
WHE1800TIDVSA10746 = DT Swiss HE 1800 Spline Black db 32 - 29" / 700C Rear Wheel - Clincher - Centerlock / 6 Bolt - 12x148mm Boost

WHEC140BIDXCA10741 = DT Swiss HEC 1400 Spline Carbon db 47 - 29" / 700C Front Wheel - Clincher - Centerlock / 6 Bolt - 12x110mm Boost
WHEC140TIDVCA10742 = DT Swiss HEC 1400 Spline Carbon db 47 - 29" / 700C Rear Wheel - Clincher - Centerlock / 6 Bolt - 12x148mm Boost

WHEC140BIDXCA10743 = DT Swiss HEC 1400 Spline Carbon db 62 - 29" / 700C Front Wheel - Clincher - Centerlock / 6 Bolt - 12x110mm Boost
WHEC140TIDVCA10744 = DT Swiss HEC 1400 Spline Carbon db 62 - 29" / 700C Rear Wheel - Clincher - Centerlock / 6 Bolt - 12x148mm Boost

2020 gravel boost wheels with internal width 24 mm - 27.5" (depth 25 mm) and 29" with XDR option (depth 42 mm):

WHG1800BJDXSA10753 = DT Swiss HG 1800 Spline Black db 25 - 27.5" Front Wheel - Clincher - Centerlock / 6 Bolt - 12x110mm Boost
WHG1800TJDVSA10754 = DT Swiss HG 1800 Spline Black db 25 - 27.5" Rear Wheel - Clincher - Centerlock / 6 Bolt - 12x148mm Boost

WHGC140BIDXCA10747 = DT Swiss HGC 1400 Spline Carbon db 42 - 29" / 700C Front Wheel - Clincher - Centerlock / 6 Bolt - 12x110mm DT
WHGC140TIDVCA10748 = DT Swiss HGC 1400 Spline Carbon db 42 - 29" / 700C Front Wheel - Clincher - Centerlock / 6 Bolt - Shimano HG / SRAM XDR - 12x148mm Boost
'

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4301
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

^ Makes me wonder which bike manufacturer is about to announce a non-gravel Boost Road Bike with DT wheels as OE.

spdntrxi
Posts: 3204
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:01 am
^ Makes me wonder which bike manufacturer is about to announce a non-gravel Boost Road Bike with DT wheels as OE.

DT does not narrow it down very much... could be nearly anyone.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4301
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

spdntrxi wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:09 am
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:01 am
^ Makes me wonder which bike manufacturer is about to announce a non-gravel Boost Road Bike with DT wheels as OE.

DT does not narrow it down very much... could be nearly anyone.

Off the top of my head, the biggest names to frequently spec DT Swiss wheelsets are BMC, Cervelo and Canyon. All of them are due to update their all-rounders in the coming season.

spdntrxi
Posts: 3204
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:18 am
spdntrxi wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:09 am
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:01 am
^ Makes me wonder which bike manufacturer is about to announce a non-gravel Boost Road Bike with DT wheels as OE.

DT does not narrow it down very much... could be nearly anyone.

Off the top of my head, the biggest names to frequently spec DT Swiss wheelsets are BMC, Cervelo and Canyon. All of them are due to update their all-rounders in the coming season.

in DTswiss language..
H- Hybrid (assistance)
E- Endurance
G- Gravel

maybe these are just more robust version to handle the extra weight and stresses of e-bikes

by Weenie


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