Road Boost 12x110 (110x12) and Hybrid Road 12x148 (148x12) from DT, Novatec, Shimano

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

icantaffordcycling wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:00 am
Lewn777 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:44 am
Disk brakes were the start of marketing driven marginal gains, boost will be part of disk brake 2.0. It's a profit grab and it's not needed for bike improvement, an answer to a problem that doesn’t exist. We just had retro tech cycle team win the biggest cycle race in the world with rim brakes and threaded BB's.
You are making lots of false assumptions. You say that disc brakes are marginal gains, they are not. You say that ineos is a retro cycling team, they are not.
well lightweight as in carbonsports wheels are old tech retro.. 8)

by Weenie


icantaffordcycling
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by icantaffordcycling

Not the point and you know that. :oops:
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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

icantaffordcycling wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:00 am
Lewn777 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:44 am
Disk brakes were the start of marketing driven marginal gains, boost will be part of disk brake 2.0. It's a profit grab and it's not needed for bike improvement, an answer to a problem that doesn’t exist. We just had retro tech cycle team win the biggest cycle race in the world with rim brakes and threaded BB's.
You are making lots of false assumptions. You say that disc brakes are marginal gains, they are not. You say that ineos is a retro cycling team, they are not.
Ineos won the TdF with rim brakes. They are much better riders than you or I.
Therefore disk brakes are not even marginal gains. Ineos use any marginal gains from blacked out hotel rooms to dietary perfection. Yet they don't need disk brakes to win. A marginal gain they'd use, but it doesn't help them so they don't bother with it.

If disk brakes were not marginal gains you wouldn't be able to win without them. You are deluding yourself with marketing.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Disc brakes represent marginal gains and marginal losses. It’s up to the individual to decide which ones are more valuable. I do not ride on closed roads and I have a disc CX/rain bike that I share wheels with. I ride in microclimates where it will be 70F, sunny and dry in one spot and raining hard a couple miles away on the ridge line.

But back to the specific topic at hand. Do you think e-bikes and gravel bikes should be limited to 135mm/142mm OLD?

icantaffordcycling
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by icantaffordcycling

There you are again with the pro cyclist argument.
It also seems that they have half of their roster crashed out at any given time. Maybe if they were using a braking system that wasn't inherently poor they would crash less. I will concede that that point is pure speculation but still...
They use what pays the bills. Using sponsor correct equipment they simply can't get the f12 disc to 6.8kg. That is when marginal gains kick in and they make the decision to run rim brakes. IF they could get the f12 to 6.8kg while using sponsor correct equipment and still used rim brakes, then your argument could be valid.
If we are going to the pro cyclist argument again then why don't we talk about Chad Haga accrediting his giro TT win to disc brakes on his bike? Maybe I should clip videos of Julian Alaphilippe braking later than anyone on rim brakes during wet descents during this year's TDF. On a disc brake bike. But that would take a lot of work, work that trying convincing you is simply not worth.
They are not a marginal gain, they are a crash-preventing, life-saving, stage-winning resource that teams like Ineos are not taking advantage of.
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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:08 am
Simple question for Lewn777. Should Boost be an option on off-road/gravel bikes and e-bikes?
Where 1x and not needing to pedal with max efficiency makes sense then boost makes some sense, which is MTBs. Even then the gain is so marginal it's practically pointless, and then it's even more pointless when you consider the boost axle 142x12 or 148x12 used is just a temporary size until the next size comes out 150x12 or larger.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Longer axles (like 160mm and beyond) do exist and are used for cases where they make sense...like tandems and fatbikes.

142mm is not Boost...it is just the distance between the faces of rear hub TA endcaps on a 135mm spaced hub.

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

icantaffordcycling wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:43 am
There you are again with the pro cyclist argument.
It also seems that they have half of their roster crashed out at any given time. Maybe if they were using a braking system that wasn't inherently poor they would crash less. I will concede that that point is pure speculation but still...
They use what pays the bills. Using sponsor correct equipment they simply can't get the f12 disc to 6.8kg. That is when marginal gains kick in and they make the decision to run rim brakes. IF they could get the f12 to 6.8kg while using sponsor correct equipment and still used rim brakes, then your argument could be valid.
If we are going to the pro cyclist argument again then why don't we talk about Chad Haga accrediting his giro TT win to disc brakes on his bike? Maybe I should clip videos of Julian Alaphilippe braking later than anyone on rim brakes during wet descents during this year's TDF. On a disc brake bike. But that would take a lot of work, work that trying convincing you is simply not worth.
They are not a marginal gain, they are a crash-preventing, life-saving, stage-winning resource that teams like Ineos are not taking advantage of.
You know better than a pro cycle team, its riders and staff? Not any pro cycling team, but the most sucessful one over the last 10 years. Who do we believe? :D :D :D
So you bought disk brake bike. Why do you need to use all this soft-headed marketing hyperbole to sell it to everyone else? It's your bike, just enjoy it. :thumbup:

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Lewn777 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:54 am

You know better than a pro cycle team, its riders and staff? Not any pro cycling team, but the most sucessful one over the last 10 years. Who do we believe? :D :D :D
So you bought disk brake bike. Why do you need to use all this soft-headed marketing hyperbole to sell it to everyone else? It's your bike, just enjoy it. :thumbup:

If you’re going to selectively reference the pros, icantaffordcycling can too. I just choose what I think makes the most sense to me. A Boost gravel bike doesn’t make sense to me right now because I want the ability to swap non-Boost wheels between my race bikes and that gravel bike. It might make sense to someone who actually wants to swap Boost wheels between their gravel bike and MTB though!

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:03 am
Lewn777 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:54 am

You know better than a pro cycle team, its riders and staff? Not any pro cycling team, but the most sucessful one over the last 10 years. Who do we believe? :D :D :D
So you bought disk brake bike. Why do you need to use all this soft-headed marketing hyperbole to sell it to everyone else? It's your bike, just enjoy it. :thumbup:

If you’re going to selectively reference the pros, icantaffordcycling can too. I just choose what I think makes the most sense to me. A Boost gravel bike doesn’t make sense to me right now because I want the ability to swap non-Boost wheels between my race bikes and that gravel bike. It might make sense to someone who actually wants to swap Boost wheels between their gravel bike and MTB though!
But Boost is better surely, it's newer! :lol:
You want to keep the interchangable compatibility of your wheels so you're willing to sacrifice marginal gains that hardly make any practical difference to save your hard earned money? I think I've heard this before somewhere. :thumbup:

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Lewn777 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:18 am

But Boost is better surely, it's newer! :lol:
You want to keep the interchangable compatibility of your wheels so you're willing to sacrifice marginal gains that hardly make any practical difference to save your hard earned money? I think I've heard this before somewhere. :thumbup:

I've always taken the position of choice. You on the other hand, dismiss everything you don't like with hyperbole, fabrication and irrelevant commentary. Gravel is a huge gray area in between MTB and road, and thus both MTB and road standards make sense to different customers in roughly the same space.

Instead of trying to add to a technical discussion on why Boost might make sense on certain "road" bikes, you immediately start yapping about marketing and sheep, what pros ride, conspiracy theories about planned obsolescence, etc.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

icantaffordcycling
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by icantaffordcycling

Wait, aren't you a fan of dics brakes on MTB's? I don't see how you can interchange wheelsets with a rim brake and disc brake wheelsets. Boost is already a standard in the MTB world and it is has been for a while, it's not the flavor of the month like you are trying to claim it is.
My entire argument was that if you are going to specifically reference a pro team then I will do so as well. I do not know as much as the staff/riders on a pro team and I never have claimed to know more than them. I don't know why I am responding to your ad hominem but for some reason, that is what you resort to when you run out of real arguments.
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Hexsense
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by Hexsense

Lewn777 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:44 am
750c wheels next? Throw away your old wheels, 750c are 1.23s quicker over 40km. :lol:
Actually, isn't that a step backward?
While it may roll over obstracle better (which is why MTB increase their wheel size). 750c has more rotating wheel diameter to disrupt the air. And more empty space between front and rear part of the wheel.

If we keep rim profile constant at 50mm deep, 650b will be more aero than 700c and both are more aero than 750c.
Aero is everything, 650b 25c for everyone. From bike size 44 to 61.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Regardless of what you think road boost is coming and it will mean longer chainstay stays which y it self means wider tyres. Also it preparing the way for 13 and 14 speed drive trains. However the hub geometry will the same as math boost so possibly not 13 speed compatible unless it's done for super wide range cassettes like in the mtb world.

I'm not keen either. I'll be sticking to my current road bikes for some time to come.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

also boost exist for very wide tyres you know 2.6" wide. What design considerations mean boost entered someone's head.

by Weenie


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