Road Boost 12x110 (110x12) and Hybrid Road 12x148 (148x12) from DT, Novatec, Shimano

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
spartan
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am

by spartan

sadly we will need road boost to get bikes past 12speeds cassettes
Current Rides:

2018 Madone SLR DISC DI2 9XXX
2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL 0 DI2 9150

mag
Posts: 414
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

It's going to save you at least 2W no matter what! :-D

So we just made you do a big (=costly) switch from rim to disc brakes, now ditch that already obsolete cr*p you've just bought and buy our new&better disc 2.0! This is finally the real deal bro! ... Until we figure out how to cash in on another big thing you can't even dare to go out without!

13s is still doable without it (at least for those like Campagnolo, Rotor already has 13s but I don't know their technical solution), but then.. yes, more room would be needed. That's however more important for 1x drivetrains which will need more than 14s in order to provide small enough gear ratio steps. But I guess that's where they're going to push long term and so it's going to become an inevitable reality in a few years.

by Weenie


spdntrxi
Posts: 3204
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

they use the word "boost" it must be good ?

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Calnago
Posts: 8608
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

spartan wrote:sadly we will need road boost to get bikes past 12speeds cassettes
That’s assuming we need to go past 12sp cassettes. I for one don’t believe we do. Causes more problems than it purports to fix in the context of a “road bike”. If we actually do want greater range on a road bike, the better way is not through 1x and ridiculous cassettes, which may be ok for mtn bikes due to large travel rear suspensions, rough terrain and potential for dropped chains up front with multiple rings, but rather for road it may be better to go back to triples up front, maintaining a better chainline for each chainring (range), while keeping gaps in the rear cogs to a minimum. My most versatile setup years ago, was a Campy Record Triple (30/39/53) up front coupled to a 12/25 10sp cassette in the rear. Highly appreciated for multiweek trips in the Alps etc. Had this on a Colnago C50. Worst thing about a setup like that was trying to keep the crankset relatively clean looking.

Keep in mind that the shift to compact gearing years ago was to provide some easier gearing, akin to what you might get with a triple, albeit not as great. But at least you’d avoid the “stigma” of a triple (“you weakling, man up!”). So with the compact you wouldn’t be ridiculed for having a triple crank, even if you were a weakling. Fast forward to today and I’d rather have a triple up front and a tight cassette at the back any day over a 1x and something like a 10/50 cassette in the rear (look away, it’s embarrassing).. now that, to me, is just going backwards, especially considering how good front road shifting is these days, well... at least for two out of the three big manufacturers.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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ooo
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

eric01 wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:43 pm
Do you have a link to the whole catalog
https://issuu.com/novatecwheels/docs/ca ... ytech_hubs

For mtb Novatec introduced 12 pawls freehub
Many road hubs now marked XDR compatible
'

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Miller
Posts: 1638
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

Road boost, is this not being driven by the growth of e-bikes which have the general effect of making parts bigger and heavier.

Monkeyfudger
Posts: 315
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:26 pm

by Monkeyfudger

Hahahaha, obviously this is a thing, just when you think road discs might have settled down for a while they *f##k* you with this!

Weird to see Tobin defending every pointless step the industry makes......

mattr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:29 am
Presumably he doesn’t walk duck-footed
if he's duck footed. He'll walk duck footed. And run duck footed. It's not particularly unusual. There's only so much you can do with orthotics, shims and spacers before something else gives.
Like ankles. Or knees.
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:29 am
Fitters usually say narrow stance-width isn’t that important and that many people would actually benefit biomechanically from increasing theirs.
many would benefit from leaving it exactly like it is. Um. Like those who've already experimented with narrow q-factor cranks when it was last popular in the 90s.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4301
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

spartan wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:07 pm
sadly we will need road boost to get bikes past 12speeds cassettes

No we will not. Boost is meant to strengthen wheels by improving spoke bracing angles, not to increase freehub width. 14spd will use big enough cogs to where the largest ones can cantilever over the flange spokes. Especially since the only 14spd configuration we are likely to see is 1x, the single chainring can be offset to the inside by several millimeters.

mag wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:32 pm
It's going to save you at least 2W no matter what! :-D

So we just made you do a big (=costly) switch from rim to disc brakes, now ditch that already obsolete cr*p you've just bought and buy our new&better disc 2.0! This is finally the real deal bro! ... Until we figure out how to cash in on another big thing you can't even dare to go out without!

The alternative is a half-measure like Specialized’s SCS or what Cannondale has done with the new Topstone Carbon with its 6mm offset dishing. Road Boost will be limited to some gravel and ebikes for now. Why eBikes, you ask? Because the middrive motors force the use of wider BB shells. Performance road bikes are probably safe. Gravel buyers will have to choose.

mattr wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:57 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:29 am
Presumably he doesn’t walk duck-footed
if he's duck footed. He'll walk duck footed. And run duck footed. It's not particularly unusual. There's only so much you can do with orthotics, shims and spacers before something else gives.
Like ankles. Or knees.
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:29 am
Fitters usually say narrow stance-width isn’t that important and that many people would actually benefit biomechanically from increasing theirs.
many would benefit from leaving it exactly like it is. Um. Like those who've already experimented with narrow q-factor cranks when it was last popular in the 90s.

It’s fairly unusual to be so extremely duck-footed that your heels hit dropouts or chainstays on 130mm spaced bikes. And it’s entirely possible he conformed to that pedal stance through years of neglect. I remember seeing photos of his TT position, and it was also a bit...different.

mattr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

Depends on the chainstays.
And the shoes.

And he never said anything about catching dropouts. Just that breezer style dropouts make the issue worse. Which they do.

icantaffordcycling
Posts: 496
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 am

by icantaffordcycling

XCProMD wrote:I want to see how boost performers in a wind tunnel, all else being equal.

*I’m being sarcastic


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk
Funny because specialized is doing some aero testing with pedal stance. No reason to be sarcastic.Image
Specialized Allez Sprint
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Lewn777
Posts: 866
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

mag wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:32 pm
It's going to save you at least 2W no matter what! :-D

So we just made you do a big (=costly) switch from rim to disc brakes, now ditch that already obsolete cr*p you've just bought and buy our new&better disc 2.0! This is finally the real deal bro! ... Until we figure out how to cash in on another big thing you can't even dare to go out without!

13s is still doable without it (at least for those like Campagnolo, Rotor already has 13s but I don't know their technical solution), but then.. yes, more room would be needed. That's however more important for 1x drivetrains which will need more than 14s in order to provide small enough gear ratio steps. But I guess that's where they're going to push long term and so it's going to become an inevitable reality in a few years.
:thumbup: Spot on.

Doesn't Specialized use a 61mm BB standard because narrower is betterer? Now Specialized will start marketing that widerer is betterer, because we can fit in more gears 1x on the back and fit bigger tires and have more rigid bike with storter rear ends? Wow, I'll be able to manual my road bike easier, just what I always wanted./sarcasm :D

Disk brakes were the start of marketing driven marginal gains, boost will be part of disk brake 2.0. It's a profit grab and it's not needed for bike improvement, an answer to a problem that doesn’t exist. We just had retro tech cycle team win the biggest cycle race in the world with rim brakes and threaded BB's.

750c wheels next? Throw away your old wheels, 750c are 1.23s quicker over 40km. :lol:

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Alexbn921
Posts: 277
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 pm

by Alexbn921

Road boost is not need and will not be adopted for road bikes. Gravel, E and adventure bikes might use this standard though.

You laugh at 750 wheels, but as a tall person they make sense. I wish my XXL mountain bike had 31 inch wheels. It still wouldn’t be proportional to a medium. And yes I know they make 31 and 36 bikes, but the tire/rim/frame/suspension is not on the same level as 29ers.

icantaffordcycling
Posts: 496
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 am

by icantaffordcycling

Lewn777 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:44 am
Disk brakes were the start of marketing driven marginal gains, boost will be part of disk brake 2.0. It's a profit grab and it's not needed for bike improvement, an answer to a problem that doesn’t exist. We just had retro tech cycle team win the biggest cycle race in the world with rim brakes and threaded BB's.
You are making lots of false assumptions. You say that disc brakes are marginal gains, they are not. You say that ineos is a retro cycling team, they are not.
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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4301
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Simple question for Lewn777. Should Boost be an option on off-road/gravel bikes and e-bikes?

by Weenie


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