Alternative to Canyon Ultimate Disc

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Cattie
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:52 am

by Cattie

Over the last winter I acquired a new Ultimate CF SL Disc frameset in this lovely blue. It was a absolut bargain, cause it was sold second hand.
I gambeled and it seems after 800 km it is a size to small for me.

Unfortunately this colour is sold out as a frameset of 2019 the the complete bikes have a lower grade carbon fork, compared to the 2018 version.

What are my alternatives as a frameset (preferred) or complete bikes that are:

- the same weight as a Ultimate CF SL Disc frameset
- have the some aero kamtail features as the canyon, or in another way are equally aero because I was absolutely blown away how easy the Canyon rides into the wind.

Looked at the Focus Izalco Max Disc, but the reviews seem to be mixed.
The Tarmac is not as aero as the new Roubaix, so in my opinion not as attractive.

by Weenie


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VTR1000SP2
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Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:21 pm

by VTR1000SP2

SuperSix


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siim
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:37 pm
Location: Estonia

by siim

Perhaps Cervelo R3 Disc? It has some aero shaping, is quite light and reasonably priced. My 56cm frame is 897g and uncut fork 383g.

icantaffordcycling
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 am

by icantaffordcycling

Cattie wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:24 pm
The Tarmac is not as aero as the new Roubaix, so in my opinion not as attractive.
But still more aero than the ultimate. Not understanding the reasoning here.

Cattie
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:52 am

by Cattie

icantaffordcycling wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:30 am
Cattie wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:24 pm
The Tarmac is not as aero as the new Roubaix, so in my opinion not as attractive.
But still more aero than the ultimate. Not understanding the reasoning here.
That is interesting. Is there an aero test comparing this two bikes?

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Roel W
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:39 am
Location: Belgium

by Roel W

Cattie wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:24 pm
Unfortunately this colour is sold out as a frameset of 2019 the the complete bikes have a lower grade carbon fork, compared to the 2018 version.
What do you mean with 'a lower grade fork'? The fork has never been changed between 2018 en 2019.

As a replacement I would recommend Rose X-Lite Four (compares to the Ultimate SL) or Rose X-Lite Six(compares to the Ultimate SLX)
CANYON Ultimate AL 2010
CANYON Ultimate CF SL 2014
CANYON Ultimate CF SL disc 2018
Instagram @roeleur

icantaffordcycling
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 am

by icantaffordcycling

New tarmac > Old venge (source: specialized marketing )
Old venge > Aeroad (source: anyone who tested)
Aeroad > Ultimate (source: canyon marketing)
Therefore: SL6 is more aero than Ultimate
Hambini did a video about why the canyon trident profile is super slow and although the tarmac still uses a kammtail it is longer than the ultimate trident profile. :thumbup:

Cattie
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:52 am

by Cattie

Roel W wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:57 am
Cattie wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:24 pm
Unfortunately this colour is sold out as a frameset of 2019 the the complete bikes have a lower grade carbon fork, compared to the 2018 version.
What do you mean with 'a lower grade fork'? The fork has never been changed between 2018 en 2019.

As a replacement I would recommend Rose X-Lite Four (compares to the Ultimate SL) or Rose X-Lite Six(compares to the Ultimate SLX)
The Canyon website lists two different typs of forks for the frameset and the complete SL bikes.

Cattie
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:52 am

by Cattie

icantaffordcycling wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:03 am
New tarmac > Old venge (source: specialized marketing )
Old venge > Aeroad (source: anyone who tested)
Aeroad > Ultimate (source: canyon marketing)
Therefore: SL6 is more aero than Ultimate
Hambini did a video about why the canyon trident profile is super slow and although the tarmac still uses a kammtail it is longer than the ultimate trident profile. :thumbup:
Thx. A lot. I will investigate that.

But in advance I must say that the feeling riding against the wind with the Ultimate was an eye opener. Maybe the 45 mm deep and 28 mm wide rims, with a 105 % tyre did help. Felt much less pushing and catching from the wind, than on my previous bikes.

icantaffordcycling
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 am

by icantaffordcycling

Wheels and the tire/wheel combination with aero handlebars will probably make more of a difference than any frame will. I have no evidence to back that up but just what I believe.

Cattie
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:52 am

by Cattie

Roel W wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:57 am
Cattie wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:24 pm
Unfortunately this colour is sold out as a frameset of 2019 the the complete bikes have a lower grade carbon fork, compared to the 2018 version.
What do you mean with 'a lower grade fork'? The fork has never been changed between 2018 en 2019.

As a replacement I would recommend Rose X-Lite Four (compares to the Ultimate SL) or Rose X-Lite Six(compares to the Ultimate SLX)
I do not like the name „Rose“ on the downtime. Otherwise it seems like nice bike.

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Noctiluxx
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

Cattie wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:48 am
icantaffordcycling wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:30 am
Cattie wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:24 pm
The Tarmac is not as aero as the new Roubaix, so in my opinion not as attractive.
But still more aero than the ultimate. Not understanding the reasoning here.
That is interesting. Is there an aero test comparing this two bikes?
Yes, Specialized marketing.
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
2019 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Chameleon Blue)
2019 Cervelo R5 Disk (Team Sunweb)
2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 0

Cattie
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:52 am

by Cattie

Noctiluxx wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:47 pm
Cattie wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:48 am
icantaffordcycling wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:30 am
Cattie wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:24 pm
The Tarmac is not as aero as the new Roubaix, so in my opinion not as attractive.
But still more aero than the ultimate. Not understanding the reasoning here.
That is interesting. Is there an aero test comparing this two bikes?
Yes, Specialized marketing.
And Tour Aero Test 2018. At least the rim brake versions and the Tarmac without an aerobar. But damn the pricetag...

Cattie
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:52 am

by Cattie

icantaffordcycling wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:03 am
New tarmac > Old venge (source: specialized marketing )
Old venge > Aeroad (source: anyone who tested)
Aeroad > Ultimate (source: canyon marketing)
Therefore: SL6 is more aero than Ultimate
Hambini did a video about why the canyon trident profile is super slow and although the tarmac still uses a kammtail it is longer than the ultimate trident profile. :thumbup:
Does the Tarmac really use a Kamtail downtube? Never have seen one in real life. Hard to see in pictures and videos.

icantaffordcycling
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 am

by icantaffordcycling

They don't call it kamtail.
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/tarmac
Cutouts of almost every tube on the bike are on the product page.

by Weenie


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