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Re: 2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:13 pm
by Bordcla
I hope the new ones are compatible with the Enve 4.5 AR the same as their predecessors. It's becoming hard to find a readily available 28c performance tire to fit on these.

Re: 2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:17 pm
by Lugan
Bordcla wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:13 pm
I hope the new ones are compatible with the Enve 4.5 AR the same as their predecessors. It's becoming hard to find a readily available 28c performance tire to fit on these.
What is the problem with tires fitting those wheels? Which tires don't fit, and why? Asking because I am considering buying those wheels. Thanks!

Re: 2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:17 pm
by Weenie

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Re: 2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:28 pm
by spdntrxi
Lugan wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:17 pm
Bordcla wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:13 pm
I hope the new ones are compatible with the Enve 4.5 AR the same as their predecessors. It's becoming hard to find a readily available 28c performance tire to fit on these.
What is the problem with tires fitting those wheels? Which tires don't fit, and why? Asking because I am considering buying those wheels. Thanks!
there is a list on enve site when you look at the 4.5AR.... you are not supposed to use 25mm for obvious reasons.. for example one popular tire is the 5000TL but dont blame enve on that one, because even Conti says dont use on hookless rims.

Re: 2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:38 pm
by Lugan
spdntrxi wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:28 pm
Lugan wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:17 pm
Bordcla wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:13 pm
I hope the new ones are compatible with the Enve 4.5 AR the same as their predecessors. It's becoming hard to find a readily available 28c performance tire to fit on these.
What is the problem with tires fitting those wheels? Which tires don't fit, and why? Asking because I am considering buying those wheels. Thanks!
there is a list on enve site when you look at the 4.5AR.... you are not supposed to use 25mm for obvious reasons.. for example one popular tire is the 5000TL but dont blame enve on that one, because even Conti says dont use on hookless rims.
Bordcla said he cannot find 28c tires for these, not 25c, which would obviously be too small.

Re: 2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:45 pm
by Imaking20
I think you focused on the wrong part (being width - which I don't think was the focus of either of the last two comments).

The compatibility with Enve A.R is because the AR is a hookless rim. The list on the site that spdntrxi mentions is their approved list of tires. Yes, they have a list of tires that are approved for use on their wheels. More controversially, the list also includes tires to NOT use.

Bordcla's comment is then saying he hopes the new tires will be approved for use by the Enve Gods...

Re: 2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:45 pm
by spdntrxi
Lugan wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:38 pm
spdntrxi wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:28 pm
Lugan wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:17 pm
Bordcla wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:13 pm
I hope the new ones are compatible with the Enve 4.5 AR the same as their predecessors. It's becoming hard to find a readily available 28c performance tire to fit on these.
What is the problem with tires fitting those wheels? Which tires don't fit, and why? Asking because I am considering buying those wheels. Thanks!
there is a list on enve site when you look at the 4.5AR.... you are not supposed to use 25mm for obvious reasons.. for example one popular tire is the 5000TL but dont blame enve on that one, because even Conti says dont use on hookless rims.
Bordcla said he cannot find 28c tires for these, not 25c, which would obviously be too small.
Right now the pre2020 pro-ones are probably the sure bet.. 5000TL's are a no.. Corsaspeeds dont exist in 28 but you can get regular corsa or corsa controls. Maybe a few other brands but yes the choices are limited. I have the 2020 Pro-Ones but I mainly got them for another wheelset and wont be using them on my 4.5AR... 2020 Pro-One also have the gumwalled TT tires.. I think I remember 28 being listed as a size. . so hopefully another option but a 28mm front tires is not ideal for TTs.

Re: 2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:20 am
by refthimos
spdntrxi wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:45 pm
Right now the pre2020 pro-ones are probably the sure bet.. 5000TL's are a no.. Corsaspeeds dont exist in 28 but you can get regular corsa or corsa controls. Maybe a few other brands but yes the choices are limited. I have the 2020 Pro-Ones but I mainly got them for another wheelset and wont be using them on my 4.5AR... 2020 Pro-One also have the gumwalled TT tires.. I think I remember 28 being listed as a size. . so hopefully another option but a 28mm front tires is not ideal for TTs.
I have the 4.5 AR Discs, as well as a number of other carbon wheels, and the 4.5s are definitely not TT wheels. I ran them with Gen 1 Pro Ones and now with Corsa G2.0s and while great for training, they're noticeably slower than something like my CLX50s with 5000TLs, Aeolus 5s with Gen 1 Pro Ones or 5000Tls, or Knot64s with 5000TLs. I think it mostly comes down to the Corsa G2.0s just not being able to match the low rolling resistance of the Pro Ones or 5000TLs.

I too hope the Gen 2 Pro Ones will be OK on the 4.5 ARs; otherwise I'm going back to Gen 1 Pro Ones (since the 5000TLs are not OK on the ARs).

Re: 2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:33 am
by Imaking20
Noticeably slower? Seems like a stretch to describe ~3w.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... -graphene2

And if the trend on BRR holds, if he ever tests the 2.0 TLR - it will be faster.

Not defending the 2.0 at all - just an interesting choice of words.

Re: 2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:44 am
by spdntrxi
when I push it... my times (and watts) are pretty close between.
- CLX50 with GP5000TL 28
- 4.5AR with Gen1 Pro-One 28
I recently tossed my gen1 Pro-One onto my Enve 5.6 and I got slower... I need to do a few more climbs I've done a million times and look at more data.

Re: 2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:57 am
by refthimos
Imaking20 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:33 am
Noticeably slower? Seems like a stretch to describe ~3w.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... -graphene2

And if the trend on BRR holds, if he ever tests the 2.0 TLR - it will be faster.

Not defending the 2.0 at all - just an interesting choice of words.
At 80psi, the Corsa is 5.6W (per wheel) slower than the 5000TL, so that's 11.2W overall. My own results with the Corsa 2.0s are consistent with BRR's data - they feel slow and BRR's tests say that is to be expected.

Re: 2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:46 am
by Imaking20
But we were talking about the 4.5AR. By your own admission, the 5000TL is not compatible - so the comparison between the Corsa 2.0 and 5000TL is irrelevant.

At 80PSI, the Corsa 2.0 with a butyl tube is 2.7w per tire slower than the original Pro One. If you can perceive that difference - especially if it feels ginormous - you're my hero.

It's also a bit funny that up until like a year ago, clincher fans were all over the GP 4000 and I never heard people say "ermagawd, it feels so slow!" The Corsa 2.0 is like a watt slower.

Still not advocating for the Corsa 2.0...


Anywho, first impressions of the new Schwalbe are good! Grip felt good. Can't say they felt appreciably faster or slower than Corsa 2.0 ( :P ) but looking forward to hitting some more turns that felt sketch on the Corsa.

Re: 2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:49 am
by spdntrxi
I never was a big fan of the 4000s... I'd square them off in no time... I was on the turbo cotton bandwagon. (still am sort of)

Re: 2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:42 am
by refthimos
Imaking20 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:46 am
But we were talking about the 4.5AR. By your own admission, the 5000TL is not compatible - so the comparison between the Corsa 2.0 and 5000TL is irrelevant.

At 80PSI, the Corsa 2.0 with a butyl tube is 2.7w per tire slower than the original Pro One. If you can perceive that difference - especially if it feels ginormous - you're my hero.

It's also a bit funny that up until like a year ago, clincher fans were all over the GP 4000 and I never heard people say "ermagawd, it feels so slow!" The Corsa 2.0 is like a watt slower.

Still not advocating for the Corsa 2.0...


Anywho, first impressions of the new Schwalbe are good! Grip felt good. Can't say they felt appreciably faster or slower than Corsa 2.0 ( :P ) but looking forward to hitting some more turns that felt sketch on the Corsa.
You're right, there are a number of confounding variables at play. I only run 28c on the 4.5 ARs. Other wheels are either 23c or 25c. 23c in the Gen 1 Pro One because those tires were oversized for the labeled width, and now 25c for the 5000TL.

My main point is simply that the Corsa 2.0s are slow compared to what I would consider the current best "all around" performance tires, the Gen 1 Pro one and the 5000TL. I don't yet have Gen 2 Pro Ones, but unless they are imcompatible with the 4.5 ARs (like the 5000TL), I suspect that will be my next tire for the 4.5s (I don't ride in the wet so the scary wet weather performance of the Gen 1 Pro Ones is NBD for me).

And if the Gen 2 Pro Ones won't work on the 4.5s, then it will be back to the Gen 1 Pro Ones.

I do agree with you on the 4000SIIs. I never complained about them being slow. I think they were the best "all around" performance clincher in their time. They are all I rode until making the switch to tubeless a few years ago. For me, it's been GP4000SII, then Gen 1 Pro One, now 5000TL. And maybe back to Schwalbe real soon with the Gen 2 Pro One. Just haven't seen the data yet.

Re: 2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:58 am
by Aeo
Corsa 2.0 doesn't feel slow compared 1st gen Pro One, plus, more supple and better grip.

Re: 2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:58 am
by Weenie

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Re: 2020 Schwalbe Pro One

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:05 am
by Imaking20
They're supple, but I felt the grip was shite.
refthimos wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:42 am
Imaking20 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:46 am
But we were talking about the 4.5AR. By your own admission, the 5000TL is not compatible - so the comparison between the Corsa 2.0 and 5000TL is irrelevant.

At 80PSI, the Corsa 2.0 with a butyl tube is 2.7w per tire slower than the original Pro One. If you can perceive that difference - especially if it feels ginormous - you're my hero.

It's also a bit funny that up until like a year ago, clincher fans were all over the GP 4000 and I never heard people say "ermagawd, it feels so slow!" The Corsa 2.0 is like a watt slower.

Still not advocating for the Corsa 2.0...


Anywho, first impressions of the new Schwalbe are good! Grip felt good. Can't say they felt appreciably faster or slower than Corsa 2.0 ( :P ) but looking forward to hitting some more turns that felt sketch on the Corsa.
You're right, there are a number of confounding variables at play. I only run 28c on the 4.5 ARs. Other wheels are either 23c or 25c. 23c in the Gen 1 Pro One because those tires were oversized for the labeled width, and now 25c for the 5000TL.

My main point is simply that the Corsa 2.0s are slow compared to what I would consider the current best "all around" performance tires, the Gen 1 Pro one and the 5000TL. I don't yet have Gen 2 Pro Ones, but unless they are imcompatible with the 4.5 ARs (like the 5000TL), I suspect that will be my next tire for the 4.5s (I don't ride in the wet so the scary wet weather performance of the Gen 1 Pro Ones is NBD for me).

And if the Gen 2 Pro Ones won't work on the 4.5s, then it will be back to the Gen 1 Pro Ones.

I do agree with you on the 4000SIIs. I never complained about them being slow. I think they were the best "all around" performance clincher in their time. They are all I rode until making the switch to tubeless a few years ago. For me, it's been GP4000SII, then Gen 1 Pro One, now 5000TL. And maybe back to Schwalbe real soon with the Gen 2 Pro One. Just haven't seen the data yet.
I'll forgive you for not citing the Turbo Cotton as the best clincher tire.

If you're up for new tires now, I think you'll be pleased with the new Schwalbe. The original Pro One tubeless was actually my maiden foray into tubeless - and the tire that turned me off of it for years since. The new one is leaps and bounds ahead for me based on setup and initial ride feedback.

I did some back to back testing last month, with 2 bikes and 3 sets of wheels, to compare ride feel. That comparo included a 25mm Corsa 2.0 TLR and a 28mm Corsa 2.0 tub. Slightly wishing I still had either bike setup (or wheel setup) to compare the Schwalbe to. I think the new bike and wheels sorta throw objectivity out the window.