Full Hydraulic Brakes vs Cable+Hydr Caliper (with Campy)

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Alessandro
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:44 pm

by Alessandro

Hey there

The bike I'm building is mainly targeted at street but will be able to take a slightly bigger tire so I can easily use it for drives through the forrest as well.

The question may be rather special, but I'm considering using a used (11spd) campy super record pre hydr on my upcoming disc frame because:
- Groupset can be had way cheaper and I can use pre '16 Cranks which i do much prefer
- Fluidchanges are way simpler since fluid is only in the caliper
- Hydro Ergos are super ugly
- Lighter (?)

Now colleagues tell me not to do it, but after reading several threads on cable actuated hydro calipers it looks like the latest(last) ones do hold up pretty well and besides modulation everything is as good.

Unfortunately have no cable pulled hydrs around me so I just cannot compare thus I'm wondering is there anyone who was able to compare these?

Thanks a lot for your opinions
Alessandro :beerchug:

cajer
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:26 am

by cajer

At this point, why don't you just consider rim brakes with a wheel that have a good brake track treatment?

by Weenie


Alessandro
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:44 pm

by Alessandro

Cajer because I would like to be able to run wider rim/tires also. :-)

joejack951
Posts: 594
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

It won’t be lighter as HY/RD calipers are fairly hefty as is the compressionless brake housing you’ll want to use with them but most of the added weight is down low. And you don’t have to stare at those hydro brake hoods the whole ride!

I’m more than happy with my 2016 Chorus 11 plus HY/RD build using Shimano Icetech rotors 160f/140r (remember Campy hydro wasn’t out yet). What I lack in pure hydro feel I easily make up for by getting to use standard brake levers. I was sold on disc brakes after building up a commuter bike in 2008 using a cyclocross frame (canti brake) and disc fork. I put a lot of miles on that bike and always had consistent if not all that powerful braking from an Avid BB7 caliper. With the HY/RDs I do a lot less (none at all) brake pad adjusting.

Note that the standard HY/RD brake arm is designed for Shimano SLR EV levers which pull a lot more cable than Campy. I developed a short pull arm to fix that issue.

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Miller
Posts: 1599
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

The hy/rd brake calipers can be made to work very well as indicated above. That said, full Campag hydro is nicer by virtue of a lighter lever feel and offering more brake progression.

As for aesthetics, the hy/dr calipers are lumpy great things, a full hydro caliper is much more discreet. You quickly get used to the look of the Campag hydro ergo and it offers a very secure hand position, something that's valuable over rough terrain.

osw000
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:23 am
Location: Girona

by osw000

I cannot compare cable actuated hydros with full hydros, but against normal calipers. After a few months testing a precisely adjusted set of TRP Hy/Rd (compressionless sleeves, special lever for Sram pull), I'm recycling them as paperweights and going back to a normal caliper setup.

They definetely do brake, but I got this situations that made me loose confidence.

1) Descending at 35-40kph, approaching a turnaround, progressive speed reduction was difficult to get without any margin for an emergency stop.
2) Impossible to apply enough power on steep descents on gravel tracks.
3) At slow speeds sometimes it brakes too much. Crazy if you normaly ride in a crowded bunch.
Probably you can summarize this as lack of modulation. But you don't understand what that means until you experience it on situations that have some risks.
This on dry conditions, where rim calipers work perfect. For wet, when disc brakes make sense, you have to apply way more force to the levers, which on the first case can be exhausting for the hands and forearms if repeated several times on a ride.
I would recommend them only for commuting bikes or recreational biking on flat safe lanes. If you ride through the traffic at speeds of +30kph, or have long descents or very steep ramps, I would avoid them.
Lightweight Urgestalt 2018 54 - SRAM eTap - Zipp 303 Firecrest tubular. 6,64kgs.

morrisond
Posts: 940
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

I've had almost every combination of Mech Disc under the sun and all the Full Hydro systems as well. I've also had HyRD with Campy and Juin tech.

Don't waste your time and money with anything that isn't pure hydro and also don't waste your time with anything that isn't Campy Hydro. It's phenomimal.

Don't worry about using your pre-2016 cranks with it. I'm running 2015+ SR Cranks on my Hydro bike and it works great.

As your frame will be able to take bigger tires it probably has longer chain stays so the Geometry of the chain line is less of an issue -My bike has 415mm Chain stays.

If you are determined to keep Non-Disc shifters try the Juin tech calipers - they work better than Hy-rd and aren't as ugly.

Mr.Gib
Posts: 3594
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

It comes down to the application. If you are riding fairly mild terrain, it's for a second bike, or a winter fender bike, etc.. cable actuated hydraulic is just fine. More than adequate braking for most situations. I think you would have to go Juin Tech if you have a flat mount frame. They look pretty good. TRP HYRD flatmounts are hideous. If this is for your main ride or you will be torture testing the brakes on epic rides, full hydraulic is the way to go if you can possible afford it. If not, Juin Tech brakes will not result in your death - they work well, are very reliable, and they are cheap. The adjustability for managing lever travel is really good.

Something else to be careful of is the location of the exit ports for the cables. Some frames don't give you enough space to get the cable housing to the outboard location of the cable stops on cable actuated hydraulic calipers and end up requiring some sharp bends. I've set up a few with some bends that I though were at the limit, but never had an issue with cable drag.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

backdoor
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 9:54 pm

by backdoor

Cannot compare Campy but my wife has full hydro and mine came with cheap hayes mech.

I've upgraded to HYRDs and they are waaaaay better then simple mech brakes.

That being said my wifes full hydros are the bees knees. If you have the budget go full hydro. You wont ever wish you didnt.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Last edited by backdoor on Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Miller
Posts: 1599
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

Mr.Gib wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:53 am
Something else to be careful of is the location of the exit ports for the cables. Some frames don't give you enough space to get the cable housing to the outboard location of the cable stops on cable actuated hydraulic calipers and end up requiring some sharp bends. I've set up a few with some bends that I though were at the limit, but never had an issue with cable drag.
Very true especially bearing in mind that compressionless cable is stiff and unwilling to bend.

Mr.Gib
Posts: 3594
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

Miller wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:42 pm
Mr.Gib wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:53 am
Something else to be careful of is the location of the exit ports for the cables. Some frames don't give you enough space to get the cable housing to the outboard location of the cable stops on cable actuated hydraulic calipers and end up requiring some sharp bends. I've set up a few with some bends that I though were at the limit, but never had an issue with cable drag.
Very true especially bearing in mind that compressionless cable is stiff and unwilling to bend.
An easy hack for tight bends is to use the silver bendy part of Jagwire brake housing (that is designed to manage handle bar routing) to handle any tight frame-exit-to-caliper routing. You just yank that section from the housing and re-attach where needed.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

ChiZ01
Posts: 289
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:20 pm

by ChiZ01

Mr.Gib wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:07 pm
Miller wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:42 pm
Mr.Gib wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:53 am
Something else to be careful of is the location of the exit ports for the cables. Some frames don't give you enough space to get the cable housing to the outboard location of the cable stops on cable actuated hydraulic calipers and end up requiring some sharp bends. I've set up a few with some bends that I though were at the limit, but never had an issue with cable drag.
Very true especially bearing in mind that compressionless cable is stiff and unwilling to bend.
An easy hack for tight bends is to use the silver bendy part of Jagwire brake housing (that is designed to manage handle bar routing) to handle any tight frame-exit-to-caliper routing. You just yank that section from the housing and re-attach where needed.
the best solution is just route the cable outside the chainstay with zipties, super smooth

c50jim
Posts: 995
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:42 am
Location: Calgary

by c50jim

I had a Norco Search frame originally built with Ultegra and Shimano hydraulic sitting around and a Chorus 11 group. Shimano parts had been moved to an Open (since replaced with SRAM eTap) so weren't available. Thought about it and asked my LBS about just using the Chorus parts with mechanical discs. Heck, I've ridden mechanical rims brakes for 40 years and cars often didn't have hydraulic brakes until the 1930s. So, we built the Norco with what my LBS said are the best mechanical discs. Bike is at my mountain place so I can't check the brand but it stops really well. Probably not quite as strong as the SRAM but better than any rim brakes I've had. I don't think I'd bother trying a half measure like mechanical/hydraulic hybrid. Either step up and switch to hydraulic all the way or just use mechanical.

by Weenie


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