Gen 1 vs Current Venge Drag Data

[Kvnmil13]

I currently ride a 1st generation Venge and I am interested in knowing how it stacks up in terms of drag against the Vias and/or the current Venge. I have seen the marketing data that Specialized put out when the Vias was launched which shows that it was faster, but I am interested in finding data from someone independent of Specialized. I would like to see how far the aerodynamics have come in 3 iterations of the Venge. I am also getting the itch to upgrade and would like to quantify the potential gains. Can anyone point me to some good data?

[C36]

Snapshot from my file from my phone, so struggle to filter properly but you have the 16, 18 and 19’ Venges.
I listed the 18’ as Venge vias, unsure if it’s a typo or that was the real name of the bike (I don’t recall 2 versions co-existed in 2018).



At home I can check the different setup tested

Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

[Kvnmil13]

Is this Tour Magazine data? I knew the current Venge and the Vias were similar in aero performance, but is interesting to see how close. Any chance there is data on the 1st gen Venge? Did Tour do a test in 2015?

[C36]

Yes, second line has the first Venge vias.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

[TobinHatesYou]

The Venge ViAS is not the first gen Venge. It looks like that listing has a rim-brake ViAS, a disc-brake ViAS and a current-gen Venge.

Kvnmil13 is asking about the very first Venge, which looked sorta like an SL4 Tarmac with fatter tubes.

[Kvnmil13]

I found this last night. I think this data includes the first gen Venge:

https://www.tour-magazin.de/raeder/renn ... 659/fotost recke/2064117/2089837.html

Anyone good at overlaying this data on the current and Vias data?

[spartan]

first gen venge had pretty poor aero. current gen venge/tarmac/roubaix all are better aero.

[gbrnole]

first gen venge had pretty poor aero. current gen venge/tarmac/roubaix all are better aero.

that's really not true. it had poor comfort but decent weight and then Spec upped the ante with the vias by making it even less comfortable and much heavier, but more aero. The original venge is marginally slower but quite comparable to a rim brake Canyon aeroad.

The new tarmac and roubaix get in the ballpark of the original venge at basically zero yaw, but the original venge sailed better than both which Spec themselves acknowledge. of course, this is the reason why the new rash of climbing aero tuned bikes are intriguing as we cast n+1 to the wayside and clamor for that utopia of aero, lightweight, comfort, utility, and discs in a single ride.

long live n+1!

[gbrnole]

Snapshot from my file from my phone, so struggle to filter properly but you have the 16, 18 and 19’ Venges.
I listed the 18’ as Venge vias, unsure if it’s a typo or that was the real name of the bike (I don’t recall 2 versions co-existed in 2018).



At home I can check the different setup tested

Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

that's a great resource but contains inaccuracies. the Rose X-lite for example, it was later corrected that its numbers were 10 watts off and were actually 222w, not 212w. Also, the best results obtained for the vias and madone were with the 404's - not stock wheels. It's also the most annoying thing about the SystemSix result since Tour didn't provide the results of the bike with stock 64's vs the zipp 404's as they lamented to for the new venge and the new S5 disc which both tested faster with the 404's.

[svendsvin]

An estimate (~tour watts 45kmh legs only):

207 watts - 2015 Felt AR FRD 404 firecrest
210 watts - 2015 Cervelo s5 404 firecrest
210 watts - 2015 Canyon Aeroad CF SLX 9.0 404 firecrest
212 watts - 2015 Giant Propel Advanced SL 404 firecrest
213 watts - 2015 Specialized Venge Dura ace 404 firecrest
214 watts - 2015 Fuji Transonic SL 404 firecrest
217 watts - 2015 BH G6 Pro Dura-ace 404 firecrest

204 watts - 2016 Cervelo s5 404 firestrike
204 watts - 2016 Specialized Venge Vias 404 firestrike
205 watts - 2016 Felt AR FRD 404 firestrike
205 watts - 2016 Giant Propel Advanced SL 404 firestrike
207 watts - 2016 Canyon Aeroad CF SLX 9.0 404 firestrike
213 watts - 2016 Fuji Transonic SL 404 firestrike
214 watts - 2016 BH G6 Pro Dura-ace 404 firestrike

The cervelo model looks exactly the same 2015 vs 2016 but I dont think firestrike wheels are 6watts better than firecrest (more like 1-2) so there is some variance from year to year

2015 https://www.tour-magazin.de/raeder/renn ... 34659.html
2016 https://www.tour-magazin.de/raeder/renn ... 39601.html





Edit: Ive included some more bikes from both years where they test the same model. The 2 different wheelsets 2015-2016 make a variance of 1-7 watts between the same model bike.

So ~2-8watts advantage from venge 2015 to venge vias ?

[Kvnmil13]

An estimate (~tour watts 45kmt legs only):

210 watts - 2015 Cervelo s5 404 firecrest
213 watts - 2015 Specialized Venge Dura ace 404 firecrest

204 watts - 2016 Cervelo s5 404 firestrike
204 watts - 2016 Specialized Venge Vias 404 firestrike

The cervelo model looks exactly the same 2015 vs 2016 but I dont think firestrike wheels are 6watts better than firecrest (more like 1-2) so there is some variance from year to year

2015 https://www.tour-magazin.de/raeder/renn ... 34659.html
2016 https://www.tour-magazin.de/raeder/renn ... 39601.html





So ~3 watts from venge 2015 to venge vias ?

Based on the Tour data, I was guessing that the Vias was around 3-6 watts faster. I think this is pretty incredible because Specailized worked with McLaren on the Gen 1 and then built their own wind tunnel to only find another 3-6 watts of speed. My guess is that most of gains were in the cable/brakes integration and down tube shape. My take away is that I should probably find a few ways to shave some watts off my current Gen 1 Venge. Anyone have some good suggestions on how I could reduce drag? I thought about going to eTap to eliminate some cables or swapping out the 42cm bars for 40cm.

[svendsvin]

Ive updated the post above with more bikes

[AJS914]

I was listening recently to the new cyclingtips tech podcast. They claimed that the biggest bang for the buck was:

shave legs (free and a surprisingly high amount of watts saved)
tight fitting kit to minimize folds/wrinkles
aero road helmet (8-10 watts)
aero wheels
aero frame

They also said that the tight fitting kit, aero wheels, and aero frame all offered about equal benefits.

In your case, you already have an aero frame. Any gains with a new generation frame are going to be small. In the latest generations of aero bikes they have mostly improved ride characteristics and hidden cables.

Spending thousands on etap will probably only save you a couple watts per cable. Is that worth it?

I'd think about an integrated aero bar. That will save a few watts and give you a more modern aero bike look. After that optimize positioning, clothing, helmet, and wheels in that order.

[Imaking20]

Find whatever reason you need to justify ditching the first gen Venge though. I spent 7500+ miles on one before I realized I was lying to myself. It's a solid bike, but that thing is so freaking uncomfortable. The Felt AR1 will likely feel A LOT more rapid AND comfortable.

first gen venge had pretty poor aero. current gen venge/tarmac/roubaix all are better aero.

that's really not true.

Yes, it is. Unfortunately.

[Kvnmil13]

shave legs (free and a surprisingly high amount of watts saved)
tight fitting kit to minimize folds/wrinkles
aero road helmet (8-10 watts)
aero wheels
aero frame

With the exception of shaved legs, I check all of the boxes. I know I am in search marginal gains and the cost of most of them doesn’t make sense. I guess that’s why I was trying to put the numbers together on a frame upgrade which also looks like a hefty $/watt saved investment.

I am running the Enve aero stem with the stock S-Works Aerofly 42cm bars. I think I could ride 40cm bars comfortably. What kind of savings could this get me?

I also considered going 1x11 to get ride of a cable and derailleur. I live in flat Indiana and rarely use the small ring. I saw on the Swiss Side Google talk that this could save a couple watts.