C64 headset bearings?

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wilwil
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

For some reason the top bearing on my C64 has gone rough after only 3000 miles and one wet ride. Can the bearings be removed from the cups and replaced or is it a new headset? I have seen the bearings only for sale on line but I always thought they were bonded into the cups. I have tried removing the seal and pressing grease in but it still feels rough. First the BB and now the headset :-(

by Weenie


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joeyb1000
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:37 pm

by joeyb1000

I think the answer is no. On my EPS, you could remove just the bearing. On my C60, they seem bonded in.

wilwil
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

Ive just removed the top headset cup and bearing and the cup is plastic! And, the bearing just pushed out off the cup with my fingers. Once out the bearing felt much smoother. So what was causing it to feel rough when inserted? I have an Acros headset from a C59 and that the cups are aluminium and the bearings are bonded in.

I've cleaned the bearing and its perfectly smooth without any grease. The outside of the bearing has no corrosion at all as you would expect after 3000 dry miles.

I was told by a pro mechanic that I would need a complete new headset at £85.00 because the bearings aren't removeable.

Maybe with the C60 this was the case but the C64 has plastic cups and replaceable bearings. At least mine does.

mag
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

I've done some bearing cleanings with great results, however you should expect the same to occur again as the sealing isn't probably doing its job well enough.
I haven't checked it myself, but the bearing should be the same as for C60: type MH-P03 also known as PT-R408 or just R408, dimensions 30.15 x 41 x 6.5 mm - 45/45 deg. (angle/chamfer).

It should be easy to source some. Make sure it has contact seals (like 2RS type), though they all do - I believe :-D - since they're used almost exclusively in cycling.

wilwil
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

I actually dont think the bearing was dirty inside. The roughness is only there once the bearing is pressed back into the frame. I can only think the bearing is distorting slightly due to uneven pressure.

The plastic cup pushed into the frame by hand, no press required, just a light tap with a mallet to seat it.

The C60 headset which Im told will fit a C64 may have aluminium cups but I'm wary of using them as there must be reason the C64 ones are plastic. My first C60 went back due to a cracked headtube maybe caused by inserting the alu cup into a headtube that was slightly out of tolerance at the factory. A plastic cup is less likely to cause this to happen.

I guess Im just going to have to live with a rough feeling top headset bearing. Bottom one is fine.

joejack951
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Location: Wilmington, DE
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by joejack951

Why not just find a replacement bearing (all you need is the bearing, not the cup or the full headset as you’ve figured out) and give it a try? If a bearing started feeling rough with only minor load applied to it I’d consider it junked regardless of how smooth it was free.

Do you have calipers to measure it to figure out what you need?

mag
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

Yeah, just check the dimensions if they match what I wrote above. If yes, look for a shop selling them. It's a cheap item.
It's an angular contact bearing. If you spin it under no load it doesn't mean much that it runs smoothly. It's supposed to be used under a load from one side and if it doesn't sping smoothly under such conditions and you're unable to clean it to the point that it will spin smootly again, just replace it.

As fot the cleaning - you should use some effective solvent. I use something like a white spirit. First rouchly clean the bearing by hands and use some small tool or brush to get the grease out if it insists on sticking inside. Pour the solvent (not so much) into a plastic bottle which allows you to put the bearing in as well. Add the bearing, close the bottle and shake well repeatedly. Leave for few minutes, shake again, etc.. no hurry, you can do it for like an hour or so. Then remove the bearing, sping it few times, replace the solvent in the bottle and repeat the cleaning process. Then let it dry, regrease, put seals back in and check how it spins back in its place.
If it's still rough, just replace the bearing.

wilwil
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

I used white spirit. It’s not under load when pressed into the frame is it? I thought it was only under load with a fork running through it and a compression ring and some load from the top bolt. I have ordered a new bearing. Thanks

joejack951
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Location: Wilmington, DE
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by joejack951

wilwil wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:08 am
I used white spirit. It’s not under load when pressed into the frame is it? I thought it was only under load with a fork running through it and a compression ring and some load from the top bolt. I have ordered a new bearing. Thanks
If it is pressed into something then it has a (albeit small) radial compression load being applied. Perhaps the outer race is cracked and the press fit distorts it just enough to cause the grinding. Hardened steel will produce a very clean break so you may need to disassemble the bearing to see it. You could also have a bad ball bearing or two. With the bearing fixed in the headtube you are likely able to apply a more even load to the inner race which makes it noticeable.

All just guesses, of courses, and the real proof will be of the new bearing cures your headset issue. I eagerly await the results :-)

wilwil
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

joejack951 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:45 pm
wilwil wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:08 am
I used white spirit. It’s not under load when pressed into the frame is it? I thought it was only under load with a fork running through it and a compression ring and some load from the top bolt. I have ordered a new bearing. Thanks
If it is pressed into something then it has a (albeit small) radial compression load being applied. Perhaps the outer race is cracked and the press fit distorts it just enough to cause the grinding. Hardened steel will produce a very clean break so you may need to disassemble the bearing to see it. You could also have a bad ball bearing or two. With the bearing fixed in the headtube you are likely able to apply a more even load to the inner race which makes it noticeable.

All just guesses, of courses, and the real proof will be of the new bearing cures your headset issue. I eagerly await the results :-)
The new bearing remained smooth after it was pressed into the frame. I cant see any damage to the original bearing.

joejack951
Posts: 1162
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE
Contact:

by joejack951

wilwil wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:13 pm
The new bearing remained smooth after it was pressed into the frame. I cant see any damage to the original bearing.
Good news on the new bearing fixing the issue. Still curious as to what went wrong in the original.

by Weenie


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