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Venge Pro frame = S Works Venge frame?

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:32 pm
by Shrike
Noticed this said on a thread here and on another forum over the past couple weeks. At first I was thinking it's just some random forum BS, but worth checking. Is there any truth behind it?

Venge Pro frame = S Works Venge frame?

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:32 pm
by Weenie

Re: Venge Pro frame = S Works Venge frame?

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:44 pm
by dcorn
As far as we know, yes. Both are 11r carbon, so there isn't a difference between SW and pro like the Tarmac. However, it's not specifically stated on the website if the layup is the same. Maybe someone from Spesh has come right out and said they are the same, but not that I know of.

Re: Venge Pro frame = S Works Venge frame?

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:48 pm
by Cemicar
Pro might be the frames that couldn't pass the S-Works quality control but were still good enough to sell...

Re: Venge Pro frame = S Works Venge frame?

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:49 pm
by Shrike
I had a Google and like you say, nothing from Spesh that I could see. The only source for this info seems to be a bikeradar article which itself says that
Spesh have confirmed it, but no quote given:
like the S-Works Venge, the Pro’s frame is built from Specialized’s FACT 11r carbon and the brand has confirmed that under the skin, they are one and the same.
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/the-2019 ... -disguise/

I'm tempted to take that on its word as I'm sure Spesh would have had that retracted if it was false.

@ Cemicar, yeah, but how would that work in practise. Make all the heavier frames Pro? Why bother, few people ever strip them and weigh them, or even if they're wondering why the whole bike weighs 2% more than advertised, they'll just suck it up.

Are they lesser in some other way? Do they even test frames individually for stiffness, aerodynamics etc. No chance. Paintjobs will cover any oddities anyway.

Would like to see a bunch of Pro frame sets weighed v a bunch of S Works anyway though.

Re: Venge Pro frame = S Works Venge frame?

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:34 am
by eric01
Check out the specialized website. The description for both the venge pro and sworks cite fact 11r construction.

Compare against tarmac where sworks is 12r and pro is 10r

They also sell separate tarmac sworks vs pro framesets while they only sell a venge sworks frameset

Re: Venge Pro frame = S Works Venge frame?

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:50 am
by AJS914
Interesting! I've always found this 10r vs. 12r marketing to be dubious. First, the difference in cost in actual carbon fiber is probably around $30 but yet we end up with an S-Works Tarmac for $4,000 and a regular Tarmac for $2,500.

Re: Venge Pro frame = S Works Venge frame?

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:43 am
by CrankAddictsRich
Cemicar wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:48 pm
Pro might be the frames that couldn't pass the S-Works quality control but were still good enough to sell...
This could be possible... the black S-Works frames were essentially bare carbonwith a matte clear over and the halogram keyline logo, so maybe the frames that had some sort of visual blemish in the carbon weave were flagged to be Pro frames that would receive paint.... maybe?
eric01 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:34 am
Check out the specialized website. The description for both the venge pro and sworks cite fact 11r construction.

Compare against tarmac where sworks is 12r and pro is 10r

They also sell separate tarmac sworks vs pro framesets while they only sell a venge sworks frameset
This is true... There is no Pro Venge frame set offered for sale. the Pro designation just denots the level of component spec'd on the bike.

Re: Venge Pro frame = S Works Venge frame?

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:03 am
by Campervan
CrankAddictsRich wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:43 am
Cemicar wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:48 pm
Pro might be the frames that couldn't pass the S-Works quality control but were still good enough to sell...
This could be possible... the black S-Works frames were essentially bare carbonwith a matte clear over and the halogram keyline logo, so maybe the frames that had some sort of visual blemish in the carbon weave were flagged to be Pro frames that would receive paint.... maybe?
eric01 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:34 am
Check out the specialized website. The description for both the venge pro and sworks cite fact 11r construction.

Compare against tarmac where sworks is 12r and pro is 10r

They also sell separate tarmac sworks vs pro framesets while they only sell a venge sworks frameset
This is true... There is no Pro Venge frame set offered for sale. the Pro designation just denots the level of component spec'd on the bike.
There is the matt black venge pro disc.

Re: Venge Pro frame = S Works Venge frame?

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:27 pm
by CrankAddictsRich
Campervan wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:03 am
There is the matt black venge pro disc.
right, but that's a completely Matte black bike... the carbon is painted over. On the S-Works model it is a matte finish clear coat and you can see the peices of cabon underneath. At least, that's my recollection of both bikes. I've only seen the Venge Pro a few times in person and I don't remember being able to see the carbon.

Re: Venge Pro frame = S Works Venge frame?

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:41 pm
by Bordcla
I very much doubt that a company with as much potential liability as Specialized would knowingly sell anything that didn't pass QC, even at a discount, especially without explicitly telling the buyer.

Re: Venge Pro frame = S Works Venge frame?

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:20 pm
by CrankAddictsRich
Bordcla wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:41 pm
I very much doubt that a company with as much potential liability as Specialized would knowingly sell anything that didn't pass QC, even at a discount, especially without explicitly telling the buyer.
You're assuming that QC is determined strictly from a safety perspective.... It could also be some sort of cosmetic blemish, that has no bearing on the safety or performance of the frame, and would be suitable for painting, but not for a bare finish bike.

Re: Venge Pro frame = S Works Venge frame?

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:42 pm
by Shrike
Also why not sell the less attractive frames with a different paint job and still call them S Works. Some of those glossy paint jobs are thick and would cover any imperfection easily.

Only thing that makes sense now to me on reflection is that the Venge don’t sell as well as the Tarmac, so its less profitable to set up two runs of two different layups. Just do the one and rebrand them as needed.

Re: Venge Pro frame = S Works Venge frame?

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:11 am
by CrankAddictsRich
Shrike wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:42 pm
Also why not sell the less attractive frames with a different paint job and still call them S Works. Some of those glossy paint jobs are thick and would cover any imperfection easily.

Only thing that makes sense now to me on reflection is that the Venge don’t sell as well as the Tarmac, so its less profitable to set up two runs of two different layups. Just do the one and rebrand them as needed.
For sure. The Venge has always had less options than the Tarmac, both in terms of colorways at each model and number of models.

Re: Venge Pro frame = S Works Venge frame?

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:09 am
by Boshk
I've always thought the Venge and others like it such as Madone, Concept etc are all very specialised bike aimed at a very niche market.
I mean, its seriously aggressive positioning and has less flexibility in setup.

Don't get me wrong, it looks the best but on long-ish day of riding, say 3hrs+, I'm pretty sure IF you had the option of Tarmac vs Venge, most people would take the Tarmac off the rack.

Re: Venge Pro frame = S Works Venge frame?

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:09 am
by Weenie

Re: Venge Pro frame = S Works Venge frame?

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:41 am
by CrankAddictsRich
Boshk wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:09 am
I've always thought the Venge and others like it such as Madone, Concept etc are all very specialised bike aimed at a very niche market.
I mean, its seriously aggressive positioning and has less flexibility in setup.

Don't get me wrong, it looks the best but on long-ish day of riding, say 3hrs+, I'm pretty sure IF you had the option of Tarmac vs Venge, most people would take the Tarmac off the rack.
Sorry, but this simply isn't true regarding the Venge. The fit is the exact same as the Tarmac.